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FFFFg? How prevalent?

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As I learn more about flintlocks and especially their military use, it becomes clearer that they can be very reliable firearms using the same grade of powder in the main charge. For years I thought you could scarcely get a flinter to go off without FFFFg to prime with. Now I am wondering whether many, or even most got along fine without FFFFg "back in the day." Thoughts?
 
To my knowledge, the grading of BP by the various f grades did not occur until some time after WW1. Prior to this time the different grades were simply known as Rifle, Cannon and so on. Lewis & Clark only took one grade of powder it seems as I have not yet read of different grades being taken. Military guns generally used part of the main charge as the priming charge according to the manual of arms. There was no standard as to what was rifle grade so it's quite possible that one brand's grade was finer than another's. In civilian guns, it is quite possible that priming powder was made simply by grinding up a bit of powder at a time. My understanding is that even today if you want better control you should grade your powder again. I've seen a drum type of grader that allows seperating 2f from 3f.
 
I shot BP for years without any 4F. Nobody I delt with carried it, it was 2F or 3F and that is what I used in th pan. Today when hunting I still use 2F or 3F in the pan and have no problem with ignition, in fact I feel it is better when hunting as the 4F attracts moisture more than the 3F does.
At the range I use a brass pan charger just because it is convenient & regulates the charge better than me putting it there with a powder horn or flask.

:thumbsup:
 
Take a look at the size of the lock/frizzen/flint on some of the military pieces. You could get 'em to fire using fresh cow pies as priming. Sometimes size really does matter.
 
Bakeoven Bill said:
Take a look at the size of the lock/frizzen/flint on some of the military pieces. You could get 'em to fire using fresh cow pies as priming. Sometimes size really does matter.

Love it! The mental picture is a beaut too!! Though I'm sure it's really close to the truth. Have read accounts of the Texas Revolution about how the troops kept the balls from Mexican paper cartridges but tossed the powder on the ground sinceit was nothing but "charcoal". Whatever it's composition, we know it worked but so much was necessary to make the Besses shoot that the recoil was a real bear! Probably something like charcoal briquets! :haha:
 
When shooting a Bess or any other military musket with paper cartridges you prime with the same powder as the main charge. My Bess was very reliable with FFg in the pan. Never saw anything but for 15 years or so, charge and prime. But then it had a 1-1/8" wide flint, a mainspring like a truck leafspring and a vent I could nearly clean out with my pinkie finger.

I use FFFg for prime and main charge in my .54 Lehigh. That has a mere 7/8" wide flint.
 
I saw a demonstration once where a fellow would dump the powder down the barrel of his musket and wack the side of it and it would prime the pan. I can't remember if he had already dropped the ball down the barrel. I also read an account of this being down back in the day.
 
The use of 4Fg powder for priming is a fairly modern event. People knew that " fine " powder burned fast, and faster than coarse powders, as the Chinese were grining powder very small thousands of years ago for firecrackers. Even today, the black powder in firecracks is something like 7Fg powder, or flash powder, the same fine powder that was used in the 19th century by photographers to light up their subjects to get pictures on metal plates coated in silver- the degerrotype. Of course, lighting off flashpowder indoors proved to be too much of a fire hazard, and the photographers were saved by the invention and wide spread use of the electric Light bulb in the 1870s. It was in the late 1870s, and 1880s, that fine " Shutzen" rifles were brought to this country by German immigrants, in both ML and then in Breechloading cartridges, and the American Single Shot rifles became the rifle to have. Priming powder went, along with percussion caps. The cartridges used FFFg powder by and large, and that was what was sold by the manufacturers. I suspect that target shooters began screening their powders years before the factory began to do so, and market the powder in grades. In the shooting world, then as now, much of the Research and Development is done on the ranges, and not in the testing facilities at factories. That is why we have so many factory made cartridges today that began their lives as " wildcats ". Many of the smaller bullet making companies now in business today started with someone deciding he could make a better bullet in his own shop. And so it goes.
 
I think that most period references would suggest a single horn for charge and prime or using part of the paper patched load to prime with I have not used 4f for many years I have 5/64 touch holes and 3f works well for charge and prime from .40 thru .62 for me, only one horn also presents the advantage of one less thing to remember, carry, or loose.
 
I've always primed with either ffg or fffg, depending on what my main charge was. I do use ffffg in my .22 revolvers but none of my other guns.
 
David Hoffman said:
To my knowledge, the grading of BP by the various f grades did not occur until some time after WW1. Prior to this time the different grades were simply known as Rifle, Cannon and so on.

The "F" "FF" grades for powder were freguently used in the colonial period. These terms were used right along side the "pistol powder" "rifle powder" "musket powder" terms-- sometime both in the same listing. There was no mandated size for each designation but, even today, these sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

We have yet to discover a listing for FFFFG powder before 1800.

Gary
 
Forgot my 4f at home once, and used 2f in pan. Worked just fine. Couldn't tell any difference.
 
tg said:
I think that most period references would suggest a single horn for charge and prime or using part of the paper patched load to prime with I have not used 4f for many years I have 5/64 touch holes and 3f works well for charge and prime from .40 thru .62 for me, only one horn also presents the advantage of one less thing to remember, carry, or loose.

Me, too, except I use ffg in my .62.
 
From The Hagley Museum And Library.

The F designations were introduced around 1836 as a means of standardizing grain sizing within the industry. That is to say where a particular F size designation represented a specific grain size range.
It was at that time that du Pont began to use the term "Superfine" as a trademark.

The so-called standard sizes were not used as such until later in the 1800's.

This standardization was used in the U.S. but not in Europe.
Here in the U.S. the powder companies generally used the standard sizes unless instructed to do otherwise by specific customers. Some commercial brass cartridge loading companies used a reverse number system.

In Europe where very fast burning sporting type powders were produced you see a grain sizing system with 8 or 9 grain sizes covering the range of our 4F up to 1F.
Prior to 1890, C&H used 9 grain sizes to cover the range of our 4 sizes.
 
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