FFFFg in pistols

[RetiredMedic]

Ok, I know FFFFg is used for Flintlock pans.

Now I was wondering if anybody ever tried it in pistols.. :hmm:

 

[arcticap]

I found this info. elsewhere about using 4F in cap & ball revolvers and other pistols:

"Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, first edition, gives the ballistic coefficient of a .457 round ball as .064, weight as 143 grains. The heaviest load listed for the Ruger is 41.0 grains of FFFFg yielding a muzzle velocity of 1021 fps. Be aware that equal loads of different brand powders can produce significantly different velocities.
The Lyman book is, to me, a must have for black powder shooting. Try you local gun shops first, they need the income.

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The NAA Companion
.22 magnum suggests a load of 8gr of ffffg. IIRC

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In the Lyman Black Powder Handbook (ISBN 1151697251), they list loads of 4fg for .36 and .44 replica revolvers. I'm not sure I would use it in any of the replicas except MAYBE an Uberti, but I see no problem using it in a Ruger Old Army.

The main difference between granulations is the maximum pressure each generates and how fast that pressure curve rises to the maximum level. Larger granulations operate at a lower pressures than smaller granulations and so they are technically "safer" and less stressful on the gun.

It might also be good for black powder cartridges in modern guns.

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Very small caliber guns, particularly with short barrels, use it.

E.g. little derringers, pocket BP revolvers, etc.

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35gr of 4fg in a 45 Colt case, topped with a 250gr LFP bullet will drive said bullet at a velocity of 1100fps from a 7 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk.

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Not everyones FFFFg will be everyone else's FFFFg. Grain size will vary fron one manufacturer to another, usually varies from one batch to another with the same manufacturer, also.

Due to the variation and the rapid pressure spike of the fine grain, I, personally, won't use it for anything but priming and tree stumps."

xxxxxxxxxxxx

So it seems that 4F has some applications in guns that have limited powder space, which just isn't the case with most single shot muzzle loading pistols & rifles. :winking:

 

Hi Retired Medic,
I agree with Arcticap.
Use 4f only if the manufacturer calls for it.
Using 4f when you shouldnt could be very dangerous. :v

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I've used a .32 ACP caseful of 4F under main charge of 3F in my '58 Rem and ROA. definitely more recoil. I don't have a chrono so can't give velocitys. I have had a pass-thru shot with each pistol on wild hog using that charge and Lee mold slugs. My '58 Rem is the 12" barrel 'Buffalo' model. accurate and powerful.

 

[RetiredMedic]

Thanks Guys for the quick respond,,
I know using 4f when you shouldnt could be very dangerous. And I'm looking for a old issue of mine (Lyman's Black Powder Handbook). I'm sure I lend it out and have not gotten it back yet.

But I remmeber reading about using it in cap & ball revolvers. I have 3 can of it that was given to me and I know I'm not going to use that much in my Flinters before powder gets bad. Hate to waste it.

I wanted to see if I can use it in my Ruger .45 Army.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

If it starts to go bad you could always drill the nipples out of CO2 cylinders, pour in the BP, fuse in and wax seal - and have some fun scareing cats and such!! :haha:

 

[Zonie]

I might mention that the 2nd edition of the Lyman BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL has dropped listing the 4F loads even for the Ruger Old Army.

Perhaps it is due to some legal thing, but whatever caused it, the fact still remains that 4F isn't listed for anything as a propellent.

I have read that the very small pistols like the .31's were loaded with 4F in the old days, but then again, there are a lot of things we did in the old days that weren't good for us.

zonie

 

[almrl]

I might mention that the 2nd edition of the Lyman BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL has dropped listing the 4F loads even for the Ruger Old Army.

My 1st edition of the Lyman BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK lists 4f loads for all the Cap & Ball revolvers. I figured that with all the pressure testing they did they must have a good reason for not listing these loads in subsequent editions.

Instead of doing all sorts of complicated calculations on pressure curves and metalurgy (that I don't know how to do anyway), I took the easy way out. I asked Lyman.

They just replied:

Lyman did not use ffffg powder for pistols in the 2nd edition. 4fg burns much too fast for use in the handguns. You get a much better profromace* with the 3fg powder.

Lyman customer service

(Apparently spelling is not a requirement for Lyman customer service.)

Not that I doubted your wisdom, Zonie. :bow: :bow: :bow:

I was just confused.

Old Coot

 

[Jac Spring]

I don't understand the desire to load cap and balls with fffg for the purpose of gaining a little velocity. The gain is minimal and at what cost?

I do understand when you have three pounds of it like RetiredMedic and are curious if it would be feasible in reduced charges for target shooting.

Personally, I'd just see if there's any flinter guys around that would trade for ffg or fffg.