ffg or fffg ?

[Steve Grentus]

I've always used FFg for my Civil War musket and was wondering if any of you black powder gents/gals ever use FFFg in a musket. I've always used FFFg in my period pistols. Thanks in advance!
Steve

 

[badpenny]

I use 60 grains of 3f and a 460 grain old style Minnie ball. In a replica 3 band enfield.

 

[nwtradegun]

i use only 3f for the main charge and priming. I cut back 15 per cent of the 3f charge.

 

[Tom Compton]

FFFg is ok if u can't get FFg.

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you weigh the powder use the same weight. If you use a volume measure you'll get about 6% more FFFg of grains weight per volume compared to FFg.

Not enough to be much difference in a smoothbore - but it will effect rifle impact.

 

[tenngun]

Most of the time I use 2 in my .62s. I have tried 3. Britsmoothie reports using 3 in his .75 with good results. That kicked off a fire storm, but looking in to it I'm convinced his argument had some merit. I had a Zouave that did well with 55 grains 3.

 

[Alden]

And right you were to, pushing that heavy, tight, minie ball.

 

[Britsmoothy]

It is not tight and no heavier than a load of shot!

As the gent is in the smooth bore dept' I guess this is not rifle use he is after info for?

3f will be fine, don't fuss. My .750" loves it.

B.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I started out using 2Fg in my 20 gauge caplock SxS, as that was the conventional wisdom back then. So I used it in my 20 gauge flinters as well as all of my Besses, when shooting live, while 3Fg was used for blanks from the muskets. My hunting loads are between 70 grains and 80 grains. When my supply of 2Fg runs out I will likely switch to 3Fg for both live and blank (my .54 rifle loves 70 grains of 3Fg).

LD

 

[Alden]

It is not tight and no heavier than a load of shot!

As the gent is in the smooth bore dept' I guess this is not rifle use he is after info for?

3f will be fine, don't fuss. My .750" loves it.

B.

Of course one should understand what a minie ball is as well as how it is different than a smoothbore's roundball (including weight and how it actually works*) to respond. And whether it's a rifle-musket or smoothbore there's this in regard to using the wrong powder...

Hoping to "get away with it" isn't a plan.

Let me reiterate that you've been using the correct powders.

*A minie ball can become so tight the rear ring of the skirt breaks away from the main part of the projectile.

 

[tenngun]

Any large charge can blow out the skirt of a Minnie. They make some thick skirted Minnie's to handle large charges. Shooting a Minnie out of a Zouave should be aimed at keeping a Minnie in that same 9-1000 fps range.

 

[Alden]

I understand what and why that can happen Tenn. I'm sure you did too. I'd bet even the OP did.

 

[tenngun]

Only recommending to take care Alden. The op was asking about using 3f. In the same charge the MV of a 3 f charge would be faster then a 2. Would a 60 grain 3 f increase to blow the skirt? I don't know for sure but would suspect it. Nor do I know how much extra it would take to blow out a skirt. The only reason anything is common knowledge is because we share. Even in some of your post you've said things many of us already knew, and you've shared things that you learned that some of us knew but wasn't known by all.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Only recommending to take care Alden. The op was asking about using 3f. In the same charge the MV of a 3 f charge would be faster then a 2. Would a 60 grain 3 f increase to blow the skirt? I don't know for sure but would suspect it. Nor do I know how much extra it would take to blow out a skirt. The only reason anything is common knowledge is because we share. Even in some of your post you've said things many of us already knew, and you've shared things that you learned that some of us knew but wasn't known by all.

Alden made an inaccurate statement earlier, he stated a minie ball is tight. No it is not! He has not defended his statement but yet again come back with a vague tangent absolutely of no use to the original question of the op.
The op never mentioned minie balls in the first place!

Yet again we see a self indulgent attempt to usurp any useful conversation by Alden!

B.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I shoot 3fff in everything.....58 enfield musket and the 12 gauge shotgun I fired this morning too....

I've even shot it out of my mountain howitzer.... :shocked2:

 

[Brokennock]

:thumbsup:

Funny how "documentation" is such a big deal in this hobby,,,, but we've seen no documentation offered or posted of the horrific results of using, "the wrong powder" (3f), in anything but a pistol or small bore long gun.

 

[tenngun]

I don't own a chrongraft, and shoot for effect not s number. I do enjoy reading about it, and ballistic tables give food for thought. The Lyman book gives loads in 2 f for the . 58 and 3 f for the . 54, that got me thinking. Lyman makes or made a . 54 Minnie that wieghed 410 grains. At the same time they had a 400 grain .58 that should make a close base line. Not a 1:1 comparison but at least in the same ball park.
In a 30 in barrel 50 grains of 3 produced 724 mvs.60 grains , 897 and 70 grains 1070.
A .58 shooting 2 f at 32 inchs produced 50 grains 803 60 886 and 70 967. Pressures with 2f in the .58 ran from 3300lup with a 50 grin charge to 4500 lup with a 70 grain charge. The 3 f produced pressures of 3140 -5120 in the 30 inch barrel. That increased in a 34 inch barrel to 5400 with 50 grains to 9000 lup with 70 grains.
Now that's comparing a .54 to a .58 so there is a volume of the pressure chamber difference, but it makes me wonder if there would be much of a change one way or the other. :idunno:

 

[Dane]

Wow guys,

We are talking about black powder here. The only difference is in the granulation, and that, very small.
We are only talking a couple of hundred pounds of pressure, between granulations, not thousands.
Ever double loaded a barrel? WAY more pressure than the difference between FFg and FFFg.

We're making these barrels out of steel, not paper towel tubes.

 

[Dewey]

I'm currently using 80 gr of 3F in my 20 ga Chief's gun (with a 0.610 ball) and it is working just fine.

Kicks a bit, but didn't really notice the bruise till I got home. :shocked2:

Musta been that Spiderman t-shirt I was wearing ..... :hmm:


Anyhoo, the 3F works great ... doesn't bother the GUN at all !!! :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'll probably catch some flak for what I'm about to say....but I make a good target..

I'm an advocate of 3fff but I also believe that anytime your powder charge approaches or exceeds 100 grains, one should consider moving to 2ff.

Just an opinion....no need to barrage me with statistical data... :grin: