Fiber shot cups?

[Nobody85]

I’ve been Having the hardest time keeping a usable pattern with my fowler. I can hit a coke can at 30 yards with a round ball regularly, but I’m having trouble with the guns intended purpose. Anything over 15 yards is pure luck to get a single hit on target. It’s a 16 bore and I’ve tried everything from 60 gr to 100 gr of FFg with relatively little improvement. I’ve tried what I’ve read of the sky chief method with not the slightest help. I’ve shot from a rest just to make sure I wasn’t flinching, but that wasn’t it. I was considering trying shot cups. Does anyone know where 16 gauge fiber shot cups are sold? I’ve looked around but have only found standard 10,12,20 gauge shot cups. I could make them but rarely have the time.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

You can try making a paper shot cups using heavy paper from a paper grocery bag.

 

[Brokennock]

Something else is seriously wrong here from the sound of it.
Something beyond the help of just a shot cup.
A shot cup might slightly improve a poor pattern, but if the majority of you're shot is missing a target,

pure luck to get a single hit on target.

a shot cup probably isn't going to help.

How big of a target are you shooting at, and, maybe more importantly, how big of a blank sheet of paper or cardboard do you have the target mounted on?
With a really large blank sheet of butcher or plain wrapping paper behind the target you can see where the majority of your shot is hitting. Do you have a denser pattern landing away from your point of aim? Maybe you have a "donut" pattern around that point of aim? (Pictures would help here)

How much shot are you loading compared to the amount of powder you noted in your o.p.?

Did you really try the Skychief load? I mean for real, not just slapping a wet fiber wad on top of a standard shot load? It has been noted several times in the notes on the original true Skychief load that any deviation from the listed components and order changes the outcome, and usually not for the better. @Skychief has a sticky post detailing his exact load, and I have a picture tutorial on it somewhere as well.

 

[Nobody85]

Shooting at a coke can. I took a few shots at a scrap piece of plywood that was about 3’x3’. The pattern was wide open at slightly less than 20 yards. Wide open. I’m loading 1 ounce #5 chilled lead shot. If any differences at all, the 60 gr of 2f was slightly tighter than larger charges. It’s possible I’m getting a doughnut. Could the pattern be thrown from center? The ball seems true enough at further distances. What would a proper sky chief method be? Even without it I should be able to put more than two pellets on a soup can at 20 yards even with a cylinder bore.

 

[Nobody85]

I think something is going on here because I have been able to get a usable pattern at about 20 yards, but it’s few and far between. All this from a rest.

 

[Brokennock]

Shooting at a coke can. I took a few shots at a scrap piece of plywood that was about 3’x3’. The pattern was wide open at slightly less than 20 yards. Wide open. I’m loading 1 ounce #5 chilled lead shot. If any differences at all, the 60 gr of 2f was slightly tighter than larger charges. It’s possible I’m getting a doughnut. Could the pattern be thrown from center? The ball seems true enough at further distances. What would a proper sky chief method be? Even without it I should be able to put more than two pellets on a soup can at 20 yards even with a cylinder bore.

Right at the top of this smoothbore forum,
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/skychiefs-shot-load-link.127394/
And,
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/your-skychief-load-in-pictures.121544/I'd recommend not using the paper shot cup/cartridge at least at 1st with the Skychief load.

For a regular shot load, given your slightly larger bore than my 20 gauge, I would try 60 to 66 grains of 2f and a 1 1/8 oz load of shot. NO cushion wad under the shot. Try just a few thin overshot cards between powder and shot then one over the shot. @Britsmoothy has great success with just thin cards and occasionally putting a blob of lube directly in the bore between cards.
I stopped having trouble with trapped air between cards/wads when I started building the whole load at the muzzle and pushing everything down together (instead of pushing each component down individually), don't need to be cutting cards or poking holes in them, less messing around with the ramrod this way too.

Neither of my smoothbores put the most dense part of my pattern with shot in the exact same spot as they group roundball in relation to point of aim.

 

[Nobody85]

Thanks so much! I’ll try to use it tomorrow. I’ll set my shot flask to 1,1/8oz of shot. So no nitro card, just two overshot cards over the powder then one over shot followed by wet full cushion wad? Mine are already soaked in olive oil.

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks so much! I’ll try to use it tomorrow. I’ll set my shot flask to 1,1/8oz of shot. So no nitro card, just two overshot cards over the powder then one over shot followed by wet full cushion wad? Mine are already soaked in olive oil.

Try just powder, 3 or 4 thin cards, shot, then one thin card.

I mostly use, 62 grains powder, thin card, lubed felt wad or lubed tow wad, 1oz #5 shot, thin card. Shot is often in a paper cup/cartridge to make reloading in the field fast/easier (the dog does NOT like to wait.)

Skychief, powder, nitro card, shot, thin card, soaked cushion wad.

Get the biggest backer you can so you can really see where all that shot is going. Standard patterning target is a 30 inch circle, but often the circle is placed after the shot is fired and is placed around the most dense area of shot.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have good results using a paper shot cartridge made by rolling three thickness of newspaper around a wooden dowel. I tie one end shut with kite string,. fill with desired shot load, twist and fold over and tie shut. I load powder two leather wads, and then shot cartridge tied end out. I do not need an over shot card since the newspaper holds it down.I have found that less than three thickness of newspaper doesn't hold together, more than three does not open up and gives a "sluging effect"

 

[Skychief]

Nobody85, how long have you had the soaked cushion wads for? They may be old enough that they are losing some integrity. If so, lube some fresh ones for another try at the patterning board. Good luck!

 

[JeffG]

I have good results using a paper shot cartridge made by rolling three thickness of newspaper around a wooden dowel. I tie one end shut with kite string,. fill with desired shot load, twist and fold over and tie shut. I load powder two leather wads, and then shot cartridge tied end out. I do not need an over shot card since the newspaper holds it down.I have found that less than three thickness of newspaper doesn't hold together, more than three does not open up and gives a "sluging effect"

I do almost the same, but I use butcher paper for heavier loads. Over powder card goes in after powder, then fiber cushion wad lubed with patch lube, then shot that's been tied with paper. Before I ram the shot I tear off the top knot, ram, and add an over shot card. The thicker the paper, the tighter the pattern. newspaper for upland loads.

 

[BillinOregon]

Nobody, you might also try larger or smaller shot sizes. Some smoothies have a particular favorite size -- and sizes they don't like.

 

[Nobody85]

The wads have been soaking in olive oil for about a month. I’m gonna try to sneak out today to do some more experiments with y’all’s suggestions. I’ve amassed a pile of boxes from Christmas to use as a background

 

[Historian]

First what are you trying to hunt with the shot? 1 oz of 5's is barely 200 pellets if you are shooting lead. The Sky Chief load is ok but fiber wads are really worthless. Stick with wool felt and if you do not make them you can buy them at Eastern Main Shooting Supplies. See below.
https://www.emshootingsupplies.com/#/
Make sure your OP was a tight fit to the bore. If not it will disrupt the shot column and cause quicker dispersement of the shot. Meaning it blows your patterns. Here is what I use now in all 3 of my SXS Pedersoli's 20 gauges.1 or 2 leather OP wads. 75-90 grains of 3Fg. 3/8-1/2 inch wool felt wad soaked on Olive Oil and Bees wax. Shot. Then another wool felt wad to seal the bore. All leather and wool felt are soaked in the 3:1 ratio of olive oil and bees wax. I have no problems out to 40-45 yards. Do not be lazy. Load it it properly and your Fowler will reward you. Also if I was shooting a 16 ga. my standard load would be 1 1/4 oz. Not a 1 oz which is really a 20 ga load. If you are interested in learning just PM me. It is not hard.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I'm not much of a shotgunner. That said, with a 12" (yes you read that right, twelve inch) 12 gauge barrel that has an open choke, I get tighter patterns than that at thirty yards. I use an overpowder card, a fiber wad, a half ounce of shot and a thin overshot wad. With #8 shot, a soda can has more holes in it than I can count at thirty yards. Now, I am using 12 gauge in an extremely short length. I dunno what is going on, I mostly shoot round balls.

 

[Brokennock]

The Sky Chief load is ok but fiber wads are really worthless

Spoken like someone who hasn't really tried it, as written in it's true form. Or didn't understand it when they did.
Fiber "cushion wads" are generally worthless when loaded between powder and shot. But, they aren't placed between powder and shot in a Skychief load, and the other components, and the order they ate loaded in, have proven to be just as particularly specific.

I use lubed felt wads from the same source. Do you generally prefer the cheaper grey ones or the more expensive white ones? I'm finding the softer and cheaper grey ones to shoot a little better.

 

[Skychief]

The wads have been soaking in olive oil for about a month. I’m gonna try to sneak out today to do some more experiments with y’all’s suggestions. I’ve amassed a pile of boxes from Christmas to use as a background

Only you can check if they are in a state of dissolving or better said, disintegrating. You want the oil soaked wads to be fresh enough to stay together as much as possible. Wishing you better results! Good luck.

 

[Nobody85]

Alright. So I went out today and did a little experimenting. I shot at two boxes about 2.5’x3’ each. First shot was traditional powder, nitro card, felt wad, shot, two os cards. The pattern was thrown wide as can be at 20 yards. I then tried the prescribed sky chief method and noticed a difference indeed. Not a tight pattern by any means but usable. I noticed with the sky chief method, that if I don’t kill a critter with my shot, I just might knock them out with my wad…

 

[Nobody85]

I put up pictures but they might take a minute

 

[TreeMan]

I have an original Belgian 16 gauge double. I use an equal mix of 6 + 7.5 shot. 60 grains of 3F and 1-1/8 oz of shot. I can nearly destroy pop cans at 25 yards. Small critters don’t stand a chance. Three thin cards over powder and two over shot. #5s just don’t have enough pellets for my liking.