Finally back to patched round balls

[Frontier's]

Almost gave into Colorados recent rule change for elk/moose with patched round ball. They outlawed the 50 and now its a minimum of 54cal when using patched round balls.

After some time, I said to hell with this! I want to stay traditional and keep enjoying the patched round ball simplicity.

Went on ebay and found 2 CVA Hawken barrels, fit them to my dad and I Traditions st louis hawken rifles. It wasn't a single drop in as I had to adjust the drums, file fit the hooked breech to the tang and then relocate the barrel tenons. After that, everything was perfect and with 90gr 2fg gearhart owen, .020" patches and .530" round balls, we're getting nickle to quarter size 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 2 1/2" at 100 yards. A little barrel break in and I think I can get the groups to shrink down a lot. But other than that, its a relief not having to use conicals. I feel reconnected once again.

I wasnt pleased with lack of crown, so I ended up lightly coning the muzzle of my barrel and she loads nicely but most importantly, it shoots TIGHT.


My first buffler horn looks great with the outfit as well.


1st 100 yard group, no swabbing.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Almost gave into Colorados recent rule change for elk/moose with patched round ball. They outlawed the 50 and now its a minimum of 54cal when using patched round balls.

After some time, I said to hell with this! I want to stay traditional and keep enjoying the patched round ball simplicity.

Went on ebay and found 2 CVA Hawken barrels, fit them to my dad and I Traditions st louis hawken rifles. It wasn't a single drop in as I had to adjust the drums, file fit the hooked breech to the tang and then relocate the barrel tenons. After that, everything was perfect and with 90gr 2fg gearhart owen, .020" patches and .530" round balls, we're getting nickle to quarter size 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 2 1/2" at 100 yards. A little barrel break in and I think I can get the groups to shrink down a lot. But other than that, its a relief not having to use conicals. I feel reconnected once again.

I wasnt pleased with lack of crown, so I ended up lightly coning the muzzle of my barrel and she loads nicely but most importantly, it shoots TIGHT.


My first buffler horn looks great with the outfit as well.


1st 100 yard group, no swabbing.

Remind me to hide if you're hunting me. Great groups. Polecat

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Very nice and your gear looks very good and authentic!

 

[TreeMan]

What was Colorado’s reasoning for outlawing a .50 cal and under? Was is simply a decision by idiotic politicians or was there pressure from the DNR or animal rights groups? I’ve killed many deer dead in their tracks with a .45.

 

[TreeMan]

Never mind my last post. I misread and didn’t see it was for elk and moose. I was thinking just for deer. Nice looking rifles there btw.

 

[MountainSmoke]

Great job. Glad to hear everything worked out well for you. Having to do that little bit of custom fitting will make your success all the more better when it happens. Best of luck and those are some great looking rifles.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Were people using round balls in .50 for such large animals?

 

[tenngun]

Most of the early plains guns made in Pennsylvania were about .50. The rifles made for the Astor expedition were .50, and the American military rifles that its thought Lewis and Clark carried were about .50.
Later the .54 got more popular.
Did they need it as a bigger game gun?
Some times I wonder. Moose and buff were hunted out East well with .50s
A bess was about 12 shots to the pound. A .58 24 shots, a .44 48 shots and a .36 96 shots. Each of those were popular calibers and each was half the ball weight of the other.
A 54 shoots about two ball to an ounce. .54 was real popular in plains rifles, I wonder if that simple weight trick wasn’t a reason

 

[Rudyard]

Almost gave into Colorados recent rule change for elk/moose with patched round ball. They outlawed the 50 and now its a minimum of 54cal when using patched round balls.

After some time, I said to hell with this! I want to stay traditional and keep enjoying the patched round ball simplicity.

Went on ebay and found 2 CVA Hawken barrels, fit them to my dad and I Traditions st louis hawken rifles. It wasn't a single drop in as I had to adjust the drums, file fit the hooked breech to the tang and then relocate the barrel tenons. After that, everything was perfect and with 90gr 2fg gearhart owen, .020" patches and .530" round balls, we're getting nickle to quarter size 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 2 1/2" at 100 yards. A little barrel break in and I think I can get the groups to shrink down a lot. But other than that, its a relief not having to use conicals. I feel reconnected once again.

I wasnt pleased with lack of crown, so I ended up lightly coning the muzzle of my barrel and she loads nicely but most importantly, it shoots TIGHT.


My first buffler horn looks great with the outfit as well.


1st 100 yard group, no swabbing.

Getting such accuracy at 50 & 100 yards is more than International shooters can manage. You should aspire to join the teams .Rudyard

 

[Hawk78]

Almost gave into Colorados recent rule change for elk/moose with patched round ball. They outlawed the 50 and now its a minimum of 54cal when using patched round balls.

After some time, I said to hell with this! I want to stay traditional and keep enjoying the patched round ball simplicity.

Went on ebay and found 2 CVA Hawken barrels, fit them to my dad and I Traditions st louis hawken rifles. It wasn't a single drop in as I had to adjust the drums, file fit the hooked breech to the tang and then relocate the barrel tenons. After that, everything was perfect and with 90gr 2fg gearhart owen, .020" patches and .530" round balls, we're getting nickle to quarter size 3 shot groups at 50 yards. 2 1/2" at 100 yards. A little barrel break in and I think I can get the groups to shrink down a lot. But other than that, its a relief not having to use conicals. I feel reconnected once again.

I wasnt pleased with lack of crown, so I ended up lightly coning the muzzle of my barrel and she loads nicely but most importantly, it shoots TIGHT.


My first buffler horn looks great with the outfit as well.


1st 100 yard group, no swabbing.

Nothing wrong with those groups! And the gun, bags, and horn look flawless together. I went to your web page yesterday and read a lot. You know your stuff man! The wood finish definitive wasn't factory was it? I want to have my two round ball guns crowned. I know your way in colorado, but do you know of anyone in NC who can do this for me? If not, how much do you charge? Or is it something I can do with a little coaching and inspiration?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Nothing wrong with those groups! And the gun, bags, and horn look flawless together. I went to your web page yesterday and read a lot. You know your stuff man! The wood finish definitive wasn't factory was it? I want to have my two round ball guns crowned. I know your way in colorado, but do you know of anyone in NC who can do this for me? If not, how much do you charge? Or is it something I can do with a little coaching and inspiration?

@Hawk78, you can do the crowing on your own. All it takes is a sheet of 320 grit and a sheet of 400 grit wet or dry sand paper and a thumb. Cut a 2" to 2 1/2" square of the 320 paper, dip it in some water and using you thumb press the paper onto the the muzzle. Twist the barrel about 5 times, rotate it a quarter turn and do it again until you have rotated the barrel a full turn. Change the paper, dip the paper in water to remove the swarf and do it again. Look at the crown. It should be starting to take on a rounded edge and blending into the lands.

Make a square from the finer paper and once again use your thumb to ease the muzzle at the bore as before to do the final polish of the crown.

Try loading. The loading should be much easier.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

If you had only put a nice belt knife in the picture!

 

[Frontier's]

Nothing wrong with those groups! And the gun, bags, and horn look flawless together. I went to your web page yesterday and read a lot. You know your stuff man! The wood finish definitive wasn't factory was it? I want to have my two round ball guns crowned. I know your way in colorado, but do you know of anyone in NC who can do this for me? If not, how much do you charge? Or is it something I can do with a little coaching and inspiration?

I don't know anyone in NC sorry to say. You may try coning the muzzle as I did. Its a very simple process and I was lucky enough to have a friend that gave me his coning tool.

The wood finish I did was with Truoil. I love that stuff but recently have switched over the birchwood casey genuine oil as its a lot less shiny and looks more like a linseed oil finish.

My dads st louis hawken I built him a # of years ago. This one too is now a 54cal and shoots just as sweet.

 

[longcruise]

Were people using round balls in .50 for such large animals?

Yes and very successfully too. One of our members here who has not posted in many moons killed elk every year with a 50 patched ball.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Yes and very successfully too. One of our members here who has not posted in many moons killed elk every year with a 50 patched ball.

Well then it appears the rule change was in error. So many people in positions of power simply don't know very much.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Anything will kill anything. Does not make it optimum however.
Personally I believe in skilled and disciplined hands a .50 prb is lots enough for elk and moose. Been there, done it!
Difference being those that are weekend warriors, unskilled and reckless, to which the authorities must consider.
Walk

 

[longcruise]

Well then it appears the rule change was in error. So many people in positions of power simply don't know very much.

It's a convoluted story but I'll try to briefly state it.

Initially the 50 caliber prb was legal for elk and moose (understand that our moose in Colorado are Shiras sub species and not much larger than a large elk). Someone (I know who but decline to say who because they had no ill intent) in conversation with someone in the wildlife regulatory department mentioned that the 50 caliber rifles actually shoot a ball smaller than 50 caliber. Supposedly the letter of the law stated the minimum PROJECTILE size is 50 caliber which made a 490 or 495 ball unlawful according to statute. Note that statutes and regulations are not the same thing. The statutes are pretty much written by the wildlife department and then rubber stamped by the legislature. Re writing statutes is not a simple thing but approving changes in regulations not so complicated. So, the regulations were written to exclude the 50 caliber for moose and elk unless the projectile weighs at least 210 grain. ALL projectiles for moose and elk must weigh at least 210 grains.

I think some people in the wildlife department had wanted to make 54 the requirement for moose and elk all along and this issue created the opportunity to do so. I don't have an issue with that and very few hunters did. The vast majority of ml big game hunters in Colorado Both resident and non resident have come to shooting ** lines and conicals. Mostly 50s and some 54s. There are very few PRB big game hunters in the field in Colorado any more and fewer 50 prb hunters.

Here's the funny thing, the current regulations say this: "To hunt elk or moose, conical bullets must be a minimum of .50 caliber, and round-ball bullets must be a minimum of .54 caliber." Sooo, note the continuing practice of specifying "bullet" size rather than rifle caliber. Applying the same thinking that was used to justify the elimination of the 50 caliber rifle, they have actually eliminated the 54 caliber rifle for moose and elk except for the hunters who are jamming a 540 ball down their 54 rifle. LOL.

So who wants to write them the letter??

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Thank you for that, I stand by my position, now seemingly even stronger, "So many people in positions of power simply don't know very much."

Writing this letter may very well get .54 PRB banned also. I'd let sleeping dogs lie on this one.

 

[Frontier's]

They outlawed it bcuz it wasnt a true .500 caliber projectile. It only took them 50 years to become booksmart. You boys are over thinking things.

 

[longcruise]

They outlawed it bcuz it wasnt a true .500 caliber projectile. It only took them 50 years to become booksmart. You boys are over thinking things.

Not sure what is being over thought?