Fire Flint

[50cal.cliff]

I got a fire flint from TOW.
What do I need to get a spark from it?
I tried to strike it with an old knife blade but not narry a spark, even in the dark. So what the heck am I doing wrong?
Ain't going to start a fire to good if I can't get a spark! :shocked2:
Do I need something with a real hard steel to get a spark, say like old file? :hmm:

 

[LFC]

What you need is high-carbon steel (not stainless--stainless is stainless because it contains things that prevent oxidation--and oxidation is exactly what you want for a spark); and it's got to be somewhat hard. One of the old high-carbon-so-they-would-rust Boy Scout knives would do the trick nicely (though they've now switched to stainless, too--grrr!) Try a few different non-stainless steels, and see how it does. What's worked for me is striking a glancing blow against the steel with a flint, so as to strike/shave off a tiny piece of the steel with the flint. Good luck!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why don't ou order a striker from one of the suppliers to go with that flint? And while you are at it, buy one of Tedd Cash's tins, designed with a lens in it, to hold the flint and striker, and some charcloth( you make this) and maybe a length of hemp rope that you can unravel to make a nest to blow up into fire from the charcloth. Unless you have access to a machine shop, you are unlikely to find the appropriate steel needed around your home to give you sparks. Everything is either too hard, too soft, or made with alloys like chromium to make them " stainless ". I have more than a dozen knives of all descriptions, and nothing made after 1960 will make a spark of any kind. If you could find an OLD nicholson file- made before 19950, it could be heated to orange white, cut, and forged and cooled, then formed into a " C " so you could hold it, hardened and then tempered, and you would get sparks. But the files made today are too low in carbon, and rely on other alloys to make them hard. Its cheaper just to buy a striker for your kit.

 

[boar]

I make them from tines off of a rotiller, files, pitchforks,,ice skates runners,lock hasps,have made one from broken pliers handle,tempered pole nails. Anything with high carbon. Heat red and cool slow so you can work the piece,shape, drill. Then get a hot fire and a hair dryer.Put piece in and use dryer to get it real red, I use rain water with ice cubes in can to dunk. You can't move the piece far,keep the can close. Dunk then try for a spark, if none repeat and try to get hotter. Sometimes it takes two dunks. One guy on here made them from garage door springs.I pick up broken car and truck springs along road. Hope this helps. Dilly

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks for the info everyone. I almost bought one of the strickers, but I am one of those who likes to make his own things.
After reading the posts I think my problem was what I was using to try and strike it with. I just picked up an old stainless steel knife I had laying in the garage. One of thos ole beaters that is used and abused. I didn't realize eaxctly what I was up against. I may have the perfect thing to make a striker from. I have some old spring steel rakes off a landscape rake out here that might just be the right steel. Thanks for the advice I am going to work on this problem and will repost when I get results worth posting!

 

[ameling]

Flint is just a rock that you can get a sharp edge on, and have that edge hold up fairly well. You use that sharp edge to chip/dig out little bits of steel from your striker. The energy you put into digging/chipping out those little bits of steel heats them up enough that the carbon in them burns. That's the sparks you see. The "magic" is in the steel - not the rock/flint.

A good fire steel should spark well without having to work hard to get those sparks. You should be able to get good sparks from a light glancing hit of steel on flint. You should not have to BANG the two together just to get sparks. Such hard hitting of steel and stone could break a good fire steel.

A good way to view this would be to compare a File and a Knife. Both get heat-treated very hard initially. The file is left that hard, but the knife gets tempered back - slowly heated up a little to make it less brittle but still hold an edge well. A poor striker ends up like that knife blade - too soft to get good sparks out of. A good striker is like that file - hard and easy to get good sparks from.

A good, quick, striker project that you can make yourself is to make one from a scrap of a file - without any heat-treating or forging. Clamp about 3 inches of a worn file in a vise, and hit it with a hammer on the flat side right next to the vise. The part sticking out should snap right off. Drape a rag over it first to control any "shrapnel", and to keep that piece from flying across your shop never to be found again. Now take that chunk of file and grind the teeth off of one of the narrow edges. Cool it often. If it's getting too hot to hold in your fingers, cool it right away in water. You need to grind off all of the teeth, and get down to solid metal. Also grind a bit of the teeth off of each side along that narrow side. Those teeth interfere with using it as a striker. Now grind off any sharp edges from breaking off your chunk of file - this saves on cut fingers. You now have a pretty good using striker. They work great. This is an old project that a bunch of the Boy Scouts used to do. They ain't pretty, and you have to use a "pinch" grip, but they make a great striker. And they are historically correct. In most archeological digs, when they find a small section of a file, the usually just view it as a broken file, or a piece of scrap steel waiting to be made into something else. A check of the wear on the narrow edges would quickly show if it was used as a striker. A bunch were.

I hope these humble ramblings help. Check out some of the other web sites about starting a fire with flint and steel. One good place is the Northwest Journal - the Canadian Library's site http://www.northwestjournal.ca/

They have several articles on fire starting. Also check out the Trail Tips link over on http://www.historicaltrekking.com

Just some humble thoughts to share.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[jasontn]

if you buy one id buy from Mike here. i have had several from Dixie, Track, and Crazy Crow and been dissapointed in them. the Track one was made in india. i bought one from Mike and i use a Rich Pierce white flint and this is the best steel i have handled plus it looks fantastic. i had tried to make some myself but always came out with so so results. its easy to heat a little piece like that up too much and burn it.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thank you for the humble thoughts as you called them, Mike!
Very interesting reading, indeed. I am hard headed I still want to try and develop my own striker, but did learn from your link.
Do you make strikers? If I understood Jason corretly you do!

 

[ameling]

I've been known to make a few fire steels. I generally make between 500 and 600 a year - in a couple dozen different shapes styles fitting into all the time periods they were made/used in from very early Roman time on up into the 1900's. So, yes, I have been known to make a few.

I have a bunch of information on that web site about making your own striker, heat-treating, types of "found" steels, making charclothe, fire starting, etc. And a bunch of pictures of strikers. If you click on the Photo Gallery link at the top of the page, it will take you to another page showing individual strikers. If you click on any picture on that page, it will show you a larger version of the picture, and show the description/documentation for that specific flint striker style. (I really need to redesign that site, and add a bunch more information and pictures - as I learn this new language on these "infernal machines".)

Such a simple tool of everyday life, and used for over 2500 years! This is one of those little details to add to your gear. There's a whole lot more to choose from than just that simple classic C shaped striker.

There is a step-by-step tutorial with pictures on making a flint striker over on the Iforge web site. [url] http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/index.htm[/url]
Just look down through the list of Projects they have on-line. But find the Flint Striker one and watch it first - before you get ... distracted ... by all the other demonstrations listed!

Good luck with your striker project! Try that simple Boy Scout Project one out of a file. Then progress on to forging one up yourself. But be warned: ***** blacksmithing is addictive ******

Thanks
Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks for all the great info Mike! Don't be surprised if you PM from me one day! :wink:

 

[Robert Egler]

I agree, I have several fire strikers of the more traditional "C" style, but I actually prefer my top 1/3 of a 8 inch file. Easier to hold. I didn't bother grinding the edge teeth off, they wore off pretty quickly in use, and I didn't find any problem with having them there to start with.

 

[laffingman67]

Cliff, That rake should work well. I've seen some of Dilly's roadside junk strikers, and they sure can kick a spark! Mike gives some excellent advice as well.

 

[mudd turtle]

Who makes a sure enough go to sparking steel striker that is worth haveing. One that really makes some sparks. And while I am at it -Flint is soposed to one of the most plentiful rock there is and comes in all colors- Why can't I find a large piece for my fire kit.Mudd Turtle. :surrender:

 

[jasontn]

scroll up and check fellow board member Mike Ameling out. i have one of his, and bidding on another now, best i have ever had.

 

[ameling]

Rich Pierce from Missouri wrote a great article in the last issue of On The Trail magazine Aug/Sep 2007 Vol. 14 No. 4 - all about Making Gunflints on the Trail. In it he also talks about going out and finding flint. If you have limestone around you, you should have flint also.

A lot of times, you just don't know what's inside a rock until you bust it open. Granite, shale, and sandstone are pretty obvious, but a lot of flint hides inside ordinar looking rocks. I have some flint brought back from Knife River Montana by a friend. The outsides has been worn smooth in the stream bed he picked it up from. And it is mostly off-white. But once you break it open, it is a rootbeer colored flint! Those English gray/black flints start out as a chalky white rock. So check out those whitish or grayish rocks near limestone. You might be surprized.

And you can also use quartz, agate, jasper, etc. I've even used chert and granite - but it's hard to get a nice sharp edge with them and that edge crumbles/dulls fast.

Good luck in your Quest For Flint and fire.

Just a few more humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[50cal.cliff]

Mike I had a litlle time yesterday and I reread your post. I went to that link you provided. Love the striker post. Man there is some good stuff on their. I can't wait till I can afford a good anvil and get my forge up and running!
After rereading your post I picked up a piece of a broken Bastard file I had laying around in my tool box. First strike I got spark. I understand what you meant by its not how hard you strike but how fast! :haha:
I am puzzled by something though. I don't understand the C shape striker.
Why C shape?
How are you suppose to hold it?
To me a straight line shape will give you a handle and facilitate a easier directional strike!
Or am I just missing something here. :hmm:

 

[Robert Egler]

The C striker is held sort of like brass knuckles. Your hand goes through the open part and the solid part covers the second joint on your fingers (second from the end of your fingers). Well, actually more covers the part of the fingers between the first and second joints. Your thumb presses down against the top part of the C. It’s easier to show you than to describe it. If you don’t hold it right, you will scrape your knuckles when you try and hit the flint. Once or twice of doing that and you’ll figure out a better way to hold it! :grin:
I’m sure there are other way that someone will describe as well.

Having given that explanation, I personally find using part of a broken file easier than using a C or O fire striker. But there’s really not much difference as to which is easier with practice, I just like the file better. Using the file striker isn’t hard, just had to describe.

Good luck!

 

[boar]

I have a dandy C striker made from a runner off of a mens ice skate. Can get two from one runner. The shape is already there. Dilly

 

[ameling]

That C shaped striker is one of the oldest styles historically. It goes all the way back to very early Roman times B.C., and shows up throughout history all the way up to the present. It is THE most common shape for a striker. There are lots of small/minor variations in the shape - like little curls on each end, how tight the C is, how long with some being under 2 inches and some as big as 6 inches.

Yes, the "brass knuckle" approach is the usual method of holding and using a C striker. And I have the scars on my knuckles to prove it - from all those years ago when I was first learning! Now days, I mostly use that "pinch" grip for holding/using a striker - like you have to do with that section of file. I switched to it pretty early on - to protect my poorly healing knuckles!

I do have one other word of WARNING. Blacksmithing is ADDICTIVE!!!!!! Once you've caught the bug, you are lost to the modern world! You have been warned! Your world will now revolve around things that are Hard, Hot, and Heavy! But it is soooooo satisfying working with the 4 elements to create your own tools!

Hi. My name is Mike, and I'm a blacksmithing Addict!

Hi, Mike. Tell us your story, and how your are recovering.

Recovering? I don't want to be cured! I came to BRAG!

Good luck on your "quest for fire". And check out all the tutorial projects on that iforge site[url] http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/index.htm[/url]

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[50cal.cliff]

Hi. My name is Mike, and I'm a blacksmithing Addict!

Hi, Mike. Tell us your story, and how your are recovering.

Recovering? I don't want to be cured! I came to BRAG!

Now that's funny! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: I don't care who you are!
Thanks for all the good info. I guess that's why I have been hesitant to buy a C-striker. I could see the bloody knuckles thing. Looks like the end grasp approach would be the safest way. I have an old spike I found in the wall of an old house. Gonna see what kind of steel it is. If hard enough I may make one from it!