First Kit, Need Input Please

[TarletonRanger]

Howdy Folks.

I'm thinkin about puttin together a kit gun, but am not quite sure as to how I should proceed. All of my muzzle loaders are used for hunting, thus while I want the rifle to maintain it's traditional look, I also want it to have a fast twist barrel. (Preferably 1-32, or 1-28) I just have more confidence shooting heavy, lead conicals into animals.

I've got a good idea what I would like the rifle to look like. If any of you have been to Track of The Wolf and seen their Jim Bridger Hawken rifle....that's it. Jim Bridger's Hawken

I'd want it to be in either 50 or 54. I'm a lowly college student, so price deffinately matters. Or I would attempt to jump on the kit offered by track of the wolf.

I'm considering taking a look at some of the kits offered by Deer Creek. About 3 years ago my father purchased an assembled Elk Hunter model manufactured by Deer Creek, and it has been an outstanding weapon. Looks just like the afore mentioned rifle, but shoots 348 grain conicals like there's no tomorrow.

So, what do you fellas think I should do? Any input will be greatly appreciated. :master:

Jake

 

You're probably going to find it difficult to obtain a traditional kit with a barrel that has that much twist, because... well... it's not traditional.

I know you can get a T/C gun with a 1/48 twist that will shoot conicals and round ball. I'm not familiar with any larger caliber traditional guns that twist much faster than that.

What I think you should do, and this is just my opinion, is get a traditional kit with a slow twist barrel, start shooting patched round balls, and get your confidence up with them. They will kill animals just as dead as heavy conicals. You'll save money, be able to shoot more, and be traditional all at the same time. :redthumb:

 

[Slowpoke]

Rice Barrel Company will make you a bullet barrel for that Hawken. A buddy of mine built a Hawken using one and it shoots a powervbelt bullet with 110g of 2F very well. In fact he killed a buffalo last month with it.

SP

 

[SAJones]

Couple decades ago I started w/ a TC "Hawken" (in qoutes 'cause it don't look like a Hawken, no way) as my first ML rifle. Not knowing too much, I got a .45 Ohaus minie ball mould, & got good patterns w/ it at 100 yds. Killed 2 deer w/ single shots w/ the bullet & 70 grains of FFFg.

You can get a TC kit, & most I've seen there is enough wood to trim it to a decent looking rifle. Do a lot of research first to get the architecture right. Did one once, & the only thing I would do over is toss the nosecap, inlay an entry thimble, & cast a pewter cap. You can modify the TC triggerguard to look better, as the long spur kept getting hung up. Also, there are suppliers who can provide iron Hawken style mountings for the TC. Don't recall who now, but I've seen 'em. Good thing is they fit the TC inletting, so it's something you can do later if you can't get it up front.

Can't do much w/ the patchbox inlet unless you want to inlet a +/- matching wood block. Also, I thinned out the TC heavy buttplate to a more traditional look. It's a lot of work, but improves the appearance immensely.

Yeah, I started BP shooting in college also, 'cept it was a Navy Arms 1851. Lead was free, & powder/caps was cheaper than .22s at the time. Used a cheap Dixie "hair curler" mold & tin can lead pot over the camp stove. Worked in the FOrest Service in the summers,& used to go out shooting fir cones to see them explode. No one told me you had to put grease over the balls, so shot about 1000 rounds w/o grease. Not one crossfire.

 

[TarletonRanger]

so shot about 1000 rounds w/o grease. Not one crossfire.

Wow, all I can say. I must just be real unlucky then, because I too have a '51 Navy revolver and the VERY first time Ishot it, I decided not to use any grease. From what I'd heard a chainfire was a very rare thing any way. Wrong!!

First pull of the trigger ignited three charges. One out the barrel, one out the left side, and the third got jammed up under the plunger. No damage was done to the gun, but I've used wonder wads ever since.

Hmmm.......hows about this. One think I do not want, is ANY brass on the rifle. Also, I'm gonna be kinda picky and say I wanta curly maple stock. Could I buy a stock off Track of The Wolf, match it up with a correct sized barrel in a fast twist from the afore mentioned barrel maker, and then use the parts sold by track of the wolf?

Only thing I'm not sure about is installing my own breech, and how much inletting I'll have to do.......haven't really worked too much wood. :sorry:

Jake

 

You will find the answers to all of your questions if you go to the links section and do some research with the suppliers.

This will obviously be a hybrid gun and not in their normal parts selection. You are buying the parts from them, not from us.

They will tell you what is available and what gunsmithing services they offer if you have no metal or wood working capabilities.

These builders kits are not snap together models. They require a good bit of ability, tooling and knowledge. Studying the pictures and knowing the archecture do not prepare you for the tedious details of parts layout and installation.

It can be done! Just click on Rootnuke's posts and watch his gun progress through Birddog6's on-the-forum tutorial.

We do not know your capabilities and can give only our own opinions based on our capabilities.

 

[rich pierce]

I'd not do it. (you did ask for advice)
If you want a gun that looks traditional, you might as well shoot it traditionally, in my opinion. There's no problem at all dropping American game with a round ball. You just need to limit the distance of your shots.

Second reason- you're a poor college student and getting a custom barrel with a fast twist is going to hike the price up considerably above a Green Mt barrel for example. Maybe 2x.

Third reason- if/when you decide to unload it, folks won't want a Hawken with a fast twist because it won't shoot a round ball with a good hunting charge.

But that's just advice- if you want a custom rifle made the way you want it, go for it and be happy with your creation.

 

[TarletonRanger]

:agree: Thanks guys, I reckon I get the message that's being sent here. Sounds like I'll take a look at the Deer Creek catalog when it comes in, and if I don't see anything I like I guess I can try somethin new.

Rich, sorry sir......I'm just not a round ball hunter. I do have one ML that is strictly regulated to RB's in .50 cal.....but it's for target shooting only. I do understand how deadly they can be, but I've also witnessed the lack of bloodtrails they produce. If I ever did get a ML for roundball hunting, it would be a minimum .54 Cal, but most probably a .58

I just like a 385 grain Buffalo bullet blowing through a deer or hog opposed to a 177 grain RB. :results:

If Deer creek doesn't offer up what I want, I think my best bet will be to go with a Lyman Great Plains Hunter, the one with a 1-32 twist.

Do you guys think I'd be able to find s stockmaker that would be able to build me a replacement for the GPH out of curly maple? It might be worth a shot.

Jake

 

[Birddog6]

For deer hunting I also prefer a .54 cal or latger, however, you don't need a blood trail when you shoot them in the heart......

If I were you & in consideration of you being in college & the expenses incurred, I think you should buy a GPH so you can get the twist you want & shoot what you want.
Then when you get out of college & are working, then you can buy a set of parts & build a nice curly maple stocked rifle. Don't put anything additional into the GPH as no matter what you put in it, it is still a $300. rifle.

:m2c:

 

[Hud]

No problem, GM makes a fast twist rifle barrel the only problem is that they only make it in 15/16" and 1". So you will need to get the Kit Carson Hawken kit from TOTW instead of the Jim Bridger Kit. I am pretty sure that they are the same parts only with different barrels. Personally I would rather have the 1" barrel for hunting instead of the 1 1/8" barrel. The gun would be a whole lot lighter to carry in the woods. All that you need to do is contact TOTW and tell them you want the Kit Carson kit without the barrel then order the barrel from GM, or quite possibly TOTW may have one of those barrels and you could just order it from them with the kit.

Another route would be the TC Hawkens kit. Now I have done some research on this particular gun and have found that a person could buy all the after market parts to build a "TC Hawkens", only it would not be a "TC Hawkens" if you know what I mean. I am currently working on mine, and when it is done it will not have any brass or bluing on it at all. It will also sport a fast twist barrel from GM for shooting heavy conicals. The butt plate came from TOTW, the trigger guard and estons (sp?) came from The gun works, they sell replacement parts for the "old" Renegade's, they used the same parts as the Hawkens, only they were blued. If you decide to put an original style hawkens nose cap on, then you will have to do some carving of the stock and will also need to get a ramrod entry pipe, these will of course have to be inlet into the stock. Or you could get a iron nose cap that matches the TC style brass nosecap from The Hawkens Shop, they sell one for a 1" barrel and a 15/16" barrel. Then strip all the blueing from the original parts and brown them, (some of the parts will already be raw iron, these of course will not need stripping).

A little long winded, but I hope this helps.

 

[Old40Rod]

Lyman walnut stocks are beautiful as the come from the factory... for the money that is... its just too bad they don't make the GPH as a kit. You can buy one already done off the shelf for a reasonable price, strip it down and make it your own

 

[SAJones]

Wow, all I can say. I must just be real unlucky then, because I too have a '51 Navy revolver and the VERY first time Ishot it, I decided not to use any grease. From what I'd heard a chainfire was a very rare thing any way. Wrong!!

Tarleton Ranger: Could be the make. I bought a '51 replica many years later 'cause it had a squareback trigger guard. Even w/ grease, this one crossfired. There is a theory that cap flash can set of a chain fire, so that may have been the reason or maybe I didn't get good grease coverage. Anyways, the pistol was traded at the next gun show I went too.

As for woodworking, although I consider kit guns as almost drop in labor, I didn't get into whittling away the parts that don't look like a rifle. I've only made two, the TC I mentioned & a Don Getz kit 'cause I didn't want to inlet a swamped barrel. And it was definaltely not drop in. TOTW also recomends that you have some experience before assembling one of their kits.

IIf you decide to do wood work, which I consider the most difficult part of putting a rifle together, you need a selection of good (expensive) sharp chisels ranging from 1/8 to 1/2", several rasps & wood working files. Don't rely on power tools, as they can get away from you too fast & take out wood you want to stay. If you buy a barrel, I would recommend a smith install the breech plug, as that is another daunting task.

Whatever you decide to do w/ this batch of advice, good luck in your endeavor.