flint questions from a new guy

[AugustWest1781]

This might be a really dumb question, but how do you know when the flint is done being useful? I have a new Lyman GPR and I am using the agate flints that come with it. Do the edges of these agates just wear away to nothing? Or, is it a matter of weak sparking no matter how you position the flint in the jaws? Also, on those agate flints, you can turn them around and use the other side when the first side is no longer useful, right?


Not sure if my question makes sense or if you might think I've answered my own question by how I phrased it. I am asking because I see people posting things in various threads about getting 12 shots per flint, or 25 shots per flint, or 75 shots per flint, etc. So, how does one become aware that ones flint needs changing? I was shooting my Lyman GPR and got to about 15 shots and started having no spark/no flash. I re-adjusted the flint position, and it seemed to fire fine again, but the spark output is not great. Cleaned the flint and frizeen face with alcohol. Still doesn't spark much, but does make sparks. Can't try it with pan primed again until this coming Saturday when I can get to the range. I did not know to re-tighten the jaws screw after every couple of shots, so I am thinking maybe my flint stopped sparking due to the screw coming loose and the flint shifting a bit. I did not even know to look for that when I went to re-adjust the flint.

Thanks, very much, in advance for the advice.

 

[86marine]

Those cut agates are crap get some real hand knapped ones. I used to use them because they are readily available at my local gun store. Some have performed great others just one shot per side, which is the majority of them. They just shattered into useless edgeless pieces of rock.

and yes you can flip em and use the other side

 

[bub524]

The agate flints are just fine. They just don't last very long. Hand knapped flints seem to work better, better spark and long lasting. I keep a couple of the agate flints around for emergencies, but like the hand knapped for first choice. You can sharpen a flint by tapping on the top edge, striking down towards the pan, with the back of a knife blade or whatever. This will get it working again, somewhat.
The agates you can turn around and use the other side.
Here is some info on some very good hand knapped flints that I use. A lot of folks buy flints form him and are very happy with Rich's flints.
Rich Pierce Long Trek Flints
New Pricing April 1, 2010
Made from local white to gray rock, these are rough, tough, and sparky.
1/2" wide x 5/8" long are $12 per dozen.
5/8" wide x 3/4" long are $12 per dozen
3/4" wide x 7/8" long are $15 per dozen
7/8" wide x 1" long are $15 per dozen
1" wide x 1 and 1/8" long are $18 per dozen
1 and 1/8" wide x 1 and 1/4" long are $18 per dozen.
Shipping and handling is generally $1.75 for the first dozen, more for larger sizes. 2 dozen usually costs $2.25, etc.
I'll need your name and address in an email with "flints" in the subject line, and will send you the flints for your inspection with an invoice. If these work for you, you can pay by cash, check, or money order. If not what you need, just return them, no questions asked.
Please email me directly: [email protected]
[email protected]
_
Hope this helps.________________

 

[msuspartan]

I use Rich's flints and they spark very well and seem to last a bit longer.

As to my 2 pence worth of advice, if you are near a club that shoots BP, join and that way you can see up close what works and what does not.

Glad you have a flinter. :hatsoff: Good shooting.

And there is NO dumb questions here!!! :thumbsup:

Cheers, DonK

 

[BullRunBear]

Welcome to flintlocks and the forum.

I've never had good results with the agate flints that come with many commercial rifles. They will work but aren't great. You will have better results with the Rich Pierce flints. They are effective in my Great Plains Rifle and are a good value. Track of the Wolf has Tom Fuller black English flints, hand knapped, that also work well.

This forum is a treasure trove of information. Try the search function for flints. Also, the sticky at the start of this subforum has pages of experiences and suggestions about using flintlocks.

Be advised: many of us have found flintlocks to be highly addictive.

Jeff

 

[rootsy]

I recently acquired some of Rich's flints and compared to the French and Fuller flints from TOTW they last quite a bit longer and spark better. The big english lock I'm using them in was a flint eater but Rich's flints hold an edge very well in it and don't shatter away to nothing in just a few shots.

You can also knap a flint in the gun using the heel of the frizzen.

 

[matt denison]

This might be a really dumb question, but how do you know when the flint is done being useful? I have a new Lyman GPR and I am using the agate flints that come with it. Do the edges of these agates just wear away to nothing? Or, is it a matter of weak sparking no matter how you position the flint in the jaws? Also, on those agate flints, you can turn them around and use the other side when the first side is no longer useful, right?

First I'll repeat what others have already said: get away from the cut agate flints. I have "fixed" more than one gun for people by removing the cut flint and fishing around in my bag for a knapped flint to replace it.

Now your question, when are they used up. Personally I can keep a flint going by giving it a quick knapp when it begins to not throw enough sparks to ignite the flash powder. When it quits sparking and I can see that it is rounded over or nubby looking from knapping I toss it and replace it. Every lock is different, some need a very sharp flint to work, some are more forgiving and you can only know what your lock wants by shooting it and observing. "when in doubt, change it out"

Here's a flint story: I sold a brand new trade gun to a gentleman. I was perfect when it left the shop. A few weeks later he caled and said "I think my frizzen needs to be rehardened" I told him to send me the lock and I'll fix whatever could be wrong with it. When I took the lock out of the box it was IMMEDIATELY obvious what was wrong. The flint was a tiny nubb worn to the edge of the cock jaws. A new flint fixed it so it sparked good as new. When I called him back his response was "I didn't know that you had to replace the flint, though it lasted forever." No one had ever mentioned them wearing out and needing to be replaced. The poor guy was using the same flint that was in the gun when I shipped it to him. When it stopped sparking someone told him it must be a soft frizzen. True story.

 

[ebiggs1]

Welcome to the forum AugustWest1781,
You have entered into a never ending saga the flintlock. You will learn that a lot of things work because flintlocks are simple but some things work better than others. The agate flint is one that doesn't work as well as others, any other, in fact! Any of the hand knapped real flints are an improvement.
That out of the way, even hand knapped flints are different individual. Some do better than the next one. I have them go for 80 to 90 or more shots and some break on the first few strikes. But mostly the average is 30 to 50 strikes. You asked about the edge, they don't have to be as sharp as some would have you believe but they can't be dull either. Knapped flints are easy to re-sharpen with just a few taps on the edge while still in the jaws of an unloaded gun. They need to be flat, no humps, maybe that is why manufacturers supply the agates. It is hard to hold a hump back flint in the jaws securely.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

To answer your question; how do you know when the flint is done being useful? You know it’s done when after knapping a new edge on it and adding a spacer behind it, between the jaw screw and the flint; it is to short to use. If it looks like the top jaw of the cock is going to scrape the frizzen, it’s done.

Now that is a worse case scenario, most folks stop before it gets that short. It all depends on how frugal you are and how you are using the rifle at the time. If I am shooting at the range I’ll knap the flint and when it gets short I will stick a toothpick behind the flint in the jaws and as a filler and keep shooting as long as I am getting good spark, When I go hunting I put on a new flint. If I am making a lot of shots bird hunting I’ll change the flint at about 12 or 15 shots and keep the old flint for range use.

I encourage you to read the article ”˜Flintlocks: How to Shoot Them’ which is located in Articles - Charts - Links » Articles and How-To on the main forum index. And yes get some good hand knapped flints you will notice a big difference. I hope that helped.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Agate flints are lousy sparkers. The test for when you get a new flint is when the one you have doesn't give enough sparks to reliably ignite the priming powder in the pan. Often, with good flints, this happens when the flint wears down so short that the few sparks it makes are thrown behind the pan. You get to the point where the flint is too short to be held well in the jaws of the cock no matter what kind of wrap you use.

And, the secondary job of every flint is to pop that frizzen open quickly, so that its out of the way of the sparks being throw into the flash pan. When the flint becomes too short to pop the frizzen open, its time for a new flint. How long the flint will be depends entirely on the design and construction of the cock and frizzen.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have a .54 GPR flinter. Have to agree with the others that those agate flints are junk. Get some knapped flints. I started with the 3/4" square black English flints from Track of the Wolf. Then I started buying flints from Rich. They work just as good, if not better and at a better price. Just have to use the flints with the bevel down. The GPR is a great, reliable shooter. Have fun :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

First, welcome to the forum. There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers. Your question is a common one.

Agate flints are not worth the extra cost; pass them up. Rich Pierce flints and T.F. flints from TOTW are the best I've used. I've used others with pretty good results. The flint needs fixing when it fails to fire reliably. The fix can include: flipping it over, moving it forward in the jaws, scraping the edge, knapping and replacing. I always install a new flint at the start of hunting season. The flint needs to be well forward and should be moved up as it shortens. The edge of the flint can clog up after a few shots and a simple scraping with a knife blade can put it back in action. I don't like to knapp the flint in the jaws; I'll do that maybe once, rarely twice then replace or flip it. Later these flints are knapped back at home with them out of the cock. I never throw away old flints; I'm [strike]cheap[/strike] frugal.

Keep the flint tight in the jaws (leather is arguably the best wrap). Expect an average of 25 to 45 shots before knapping is needed though the range can be from 1 to 100 shots per flint. Most locks - not all by any stretch - like the flint bevel up. flipping the flint over can give extra shots. The flint should strike the frizzen about 1/3 the way down from the top at (roughly) a 60 degree (+ or -) arc scraping the frizzen face and NOT hitting it head on.

Oh, sometimes a flint will self knapp as it's fired. Hope this and the previous posts helps.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

One thing no one has mentioned so far is that the agate flints can be sharpened with a diamond lap or similar abrasive (use water for the cutting fluid) if you do want to make them work. You can try knapping them, but I've had poor results with this because of the rather coarse angle of the edge.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The term agate is misleading to me. I hope a geologist steps in, but I believe what TC sells is sawn chert. Years ago I had some real Montana agate that sparked very well. It was translucent rather than opaque like the TC "agates". I've never been fond of the TC "agate" either, but true agate has done well for me.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[86marine]

Yep I have had a one flint go 123 shots without knapping it kept doing it on its own and in very fine increments as to not take alot off. It all depends on the flint each one has varying natural fracture lines.

 

[Zonie]

My experiance with the cut agate is they wear out quickly and they cannot be knapped to resharpen them.

When one of them stops sending a shower of sparks off of the frizzen you can consider it 'worn out'.

With diamond wheels and similar rock cutting things they can be re-cut or re-sharpened but IMO it is not worth the time and effort.

Generally speaking, I've had very poor luck with these.

While a real piece of flint is not nice and rectangular a piece of leather will usually hold it in the jaws of the cock despite its rough shape.

Like the cut agate, when a real flint quits making a nice shower of sparks it needs attention but it is not worn out. Real flint can be re-knapped to create a new edge and there are several ways of doing this but suffice it to say here that the new edge will once again be razor sharp and will produce a nice shower of sparks.

 

[AugustWest1781]

Gentlemen,
I am profoundly and genuinely grateful for your advice. I have ordered some black English flints from TOTW, though it troubles my heart to order anything that originates in England. I also have had the pleasure to order some genuine AMERICAN flints from TOTW, too, that originate in Arkansas (where I spent 3 1/2 years living before having the distinct privilege to move back to the United States :grin: , i.e., Pennsylvania).

Seriously, I appreciate the advice wholeheartedly. I will try out the non-agate flints and see how it goes.

Dan R., in Lancaster, PA :thumbsup:

 

[86marine]

Well glad to have you here in the commonwealth. I have alot of service buddies over there in amish country.

 

[MSW]

welcome to the [strike]addiction[/strike] hobby ... once you get your flinter up and running, all else will pale in comparison. to paraphrase the little green jedi master: once rocks banged have you, forever will they dominate your range time...

you'll se a substantial improvement in performance and reliability when you go from the cut agate to a real flint. for the life of me i can't figure out why otherwise serviceable rifles leave a factory with that stuff in the lock, foisted off on the unsuspecting public and serving only to perpetuate the common myth that flintlocks are unreliable and slow and finicky.

well, so is a Maserati if you put cheap gas in it and don't get the engine tuned up every so often, and so it is with rockbangers- but once you get everything set up properly, your rifle will shoot fine.

(that's the end of the tirade)

as regards the dumb questions, yes, actually there are dumb questions, but i've yet to see one posted here.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try ordering some flints from our own Rich Pierce. He is from the St.Louis area, and knapps them from Cherts. They spark well, and last long. And, the price is right. These are American Made, from American rocks. :hatsoff: