Flint vs percussion power comparison

[Tom A Hawk]

I read somewhere that given equal caliber and powder charge, flintlocks are inherently less powerful than percussion guns due to pressure loss through the vent. On the surface, it seemed to make sense but I was curious about what the actual difference might be. I don't have a chronograph, so I set up a simple penetration test.

• .54 percussion Hawken
• .54 flint Hawken
• Two sections of green poplar log
• Both rifles were loaded exactly the same with 125 grs. FF.
• Log sections were set up at 40 yards with end grain facing
• When the smoke cleared the log sections were split and the ball channels compared.

As shown in the photo below, both balls traveled approximately the same distance. Under hunting circumstances I suspect the game would not notice any difference between the two rifles.

Flintlock on the left / Percussion on the right

 

[8 BORE]

6 of 1 half a dozen of the other

 

[Rifleman1776]

Neat test. Good on you for doing it. Probably won't end the never ending arguments but each is what it is.

 

[Logcutter]

Interesting experiment. I'm not surprised at the outcome.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Tom,
I don't think power difference was the issue, rather consistency between shots. Gas loss through the vent hole may not be the same for every shot. Also, relative to your test, gas loss through the vent may constitute a very small fraction of the force with a heavy load like 125 grains but a larger proportion in a 75 gr load. Try the same test in rifles using 75-80 grains.
dave

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Hi Tom,
I don't think power difference was the issue, rather consistency between shots. Gas loss through the vent hole may not be the same for every shot. Also, relative to your test, gas loss through the vent may constitute a very small fraction of the force with a heavy load like 125 grains but a larger proportion in a 75 gr load. Try the same test in rifles using 75-80 grains.
dave

A retest with reduced powder charge sounds like a good suggestion ( and it gives me an excuse to take my guns out ). I'll set it up again as the weather allows and let you know the results.

 

[Huntschool]

A retest with reduced powder charge sounds like a good suggestion ( and it gives me an excuse to take my guns out ). I'll set it up again as the weather allows and let you know the results.

Tom: Interesting test. Not surprised at all.... I do agree I would also like to see what happens with lighter, more hunting load type for the caliber...… although I think I know what will happen. Neat test.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Tom: Interesting test. Not surprised at all.... I do agree I would also like to see what happens with lighter, more hunting load type for the caliber...… although I think I know what will happen. Neat test.

Hmm...125 Grains is my hunting load....

 

[Carbon 6]

Interesting, Glad to see people experimenting.

I have two questions.
1. where the barrel lengths the same for both rifles?

2. Which gun actually penetrated farther?

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Flintlocks are cooler and more fun.

 

[Huntschool]

Hmm...125 Grains is my hunting load....

Well each of us has their own Ideas.... My 54's are tuned to do their job at 100 gr of 3fffg. That said, I killed my elk with 110 gr of 3fffg with a 535 patched RB. I have killed a pretty good bunch of deer over my 50 years of shooting these things with less then 100 grs. in a .54. Just me... No reflection on what you like.

Just seems like a lot of folks on here are shooting GPR's/TC's/CVA's and loading at about 75-85 grs. or so. Nothing wrong there either.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Interesting, Glad to see people experimenting.

I have two questions.
1. where the barrel lengths the same for both rifles?

2. Which gun actually penetrated farther?

No. The caplock has a 32" barrel and the flinter has 36"

The caplock ball went maybe 1/2" further, however the flintlock ball showed more tumbling and deformation.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Well each of us has their own Ideas.... My 54's are tuned to do their job at 100 gr of 3fffg. That said, I killed my elk with 110 gr of 3fffg with a 535 patched RB. I have killed a pretty good bunch of deer over my 50 years of shooting these things with less then 100 grs. in a .54. Just me... No reflection on what you like.

Just seems like a lot of folks on here are shooting GPR's/TC's/CVA's and loading at about 75-85 grs. or so. Nothing wrong there either.

Yes, this pursuit is open to a lot of personal preference. I like the flat trajectory that 125 grains provides and the heavy barreled Hawkins were designed for heavier charges. One historical reference I found when researching the gun suggests that loads up to 1:1 ball / powder weight may have been used on buffalo. Broadside shots on deer with my load usually result in the ball ending up just under the hide on the off side and flattened out like a nickle.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I read once that the pressure loss and resultant velocity loss through the flintlock vent amounted to the equivalent of 5 grains more powder required in the flintlock to match the caplock velocity. I’m sure this is just a general correction factor as vent size would be governs the pressure loss.

I’m sure someone has done this same test through a chronograph and got velocity numbers.

Measure the ball path penetration distance.

 

[RHensley]

I've hunted with 54 caliber rifles both flint and percussion. I use 100 grains 2F in both rifles and so far on a broad side shot I have never found the ball in the deer. All ways went through unless I hit the shoulder bone then it stopped under the skin on the opposite side. Which brings me to say what my father all ways told me. You can kill some thing just so dead . But these test and trials are a lot of fun.

 

[Huntschool]

Yes, this pursuit is open to a lot of personal preference. I like the flat trajectory that 125 grains provides and the heavy barreled Hawkins were designed for heavier charges. One historical reference I found when researching the gun suggests that loads up to 1:1 ball / powder weight may have been used on buffalo. Broadside shots on deer with my load usually result in the ball ending up just under the hide on the off side and flattened out like a nickle.

Tom: My Hawken (Sharon Barrel 1:66) does the same thing with my 100 gr load..... jut sayin.... Usually under 100 yards and between 50 and 100 yards.

Not trying to start a mine is better then yours thing here.... just info

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I get the hair splitting.
Use a Maxi hunter @ 50 grains.
Usually no further than 30 yards.
It like parking a car on a railroad crossing.
gets it done...

 

[smo]

Great test ,Thanks for posting!

Vent size? Vs Nipple size opening?

Are they the same?

It seems too me that would be a variable as well as barrel length & powder charge....

Thanks again

 

[Sparkitoff]

I hope flintlock is a 38 inch barrel on my percussion is a 34 inch barrel bolts and 54 caliber. With the exact same load I am getting an average of 78 ft./s and more from the percussion rifle and spite of the slightly shorter barrel. That is pretty insignificant in the field And may be due to internal measurements and other factors as well

 

[theDuck]

I recall on this site or another ML site someone did the percussion/flint comparison. They had 2 rifles, both factory made identical models only one in flint and the other in percussion. The chronograph showed the flinter to be 100 fps slower for identical loads.