Flints

[Gtrubicon]

I did polish the internals when I built the gun, the action of the lock is very smooth. The frizzen does seem that it takes more force than needed to open.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Gtrubicon, you may need to lighten the tension on the frizzen spring. Hone down the width of the spring along the length of the spring. Do this only a litlle bit at a time.

 

[Gtrubicon]

@Gtrubicon, you may need to lighten the tension on the frizzen spring. Hone down the width of the spring along the length of the spring. Do this only a litlle bit at a time.

Any tricks to measure the force needed to open the frizzen? Would you use a file or Emory cloth for this?

 

[Cruzatte]

Where to buy good flints? I’m using flints from track, French and English. Is there better available?

No.

 

[Wncman]

Well I have never counted shots in a flint. Maybe I just got a good batch. I position mine with the frizzen closed and **** at half to be just a little shy of the Frizzen.
I use black English in my ancient L&R
French blond in my Fusil.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Gtrubicon, there's a lot of information to be found by searching the Forums. Springs are hardened and tempered. Most can be filed, but some have to be sanded, or honed to reduce the width of the springs. Do use some sort of spring vise to remove and reinstall the spring. Pay attention to @TDM's instructions to reduce only a few thousandths of width at a time. be sure to polish out all file marks. Those marks will be the place where the spring breaks. Be very cautious about filing on the bend. This is quite susceptible to breakage. People have use trigger pull gauges to estimate spring tension. Bu as @rich pierce mentions, such balance measurements are elusive. Balance is more achieved by a trial-and-error method. I have known more than one shooter who completed a match after the frizzen spring broke. The frizzen spring need only enough tension to hold the frizzen over the pan and to keep it from rebounding back onto the flint.

I would file down the width (don't mess with the thickness) of both the main spring and frizzen spring. Use a decent mill file, take off small (.005"-.006") amounts at a time. Concentrate on removing from mid spring to the bend. Reassemble and check the feel often. Polish off the file marks when done. I've done this on Pedersoli locks with very good results.

Did you try replacing or sanding the frizzen spring? I had to belt sand the frizzen spring on my Pedersolli Trade gun. Used 400 grit belt on a 1x30 sander. It was chipping flints before I thinned the spring on the top and bottom. I would put some 4f in the main charge. Antechamber could be blocked too. A 36 caliber brush should be able to get in there and clean the antechamber. That is how I clean mine. Try Hops number 9 bore cleaner and ballistol too.

No one answer on that one. Mainly depends on the lock and the geometry of the arc of the **** to the frizzen face. Also, some locks have really strong main springs, some have really strong frizzen springs, and some have both. Those locks are flint killers, you might only get 10 shots before needing to knap the flint. But if you have a well balanced lock and decent quality flints 40-60 shots isn't uncommon. Don't think I've ever gotten over 60, but some folks do. The problems with a lock can be corrected too with a good polishing and filing down the width of the springs. Just have to be careful and polish out the file marks. Knapping a flint takes a little getting used to but it's not difficult. There are a number of methods that work, but my method is to leave the flint installed and at half **** with the frizzen open, I place the bottom of my left index finger under the bottom of the flint edge with a light pressure and tap the edge of the top of the flint with a brass rod or antler tine. Just light taps along the edge and the bottom layer will flake off on your finger tip.

This months Muzzle Blast (December 2022) has a good article on lock sparking and spring balance by Fred Stutzenburger. He tests several English and contemporary locks that spark well and tries to establish a spring balance ratio between them that produces good sparks regularly. He's having trouble because good sparks can be produced from many variables of frizzen and main spring ratio.
I was particularly interested in the frizzen hop portion of this article and how much actual contact was being made between flint and frizzen face.
So far it looks like good main spring power is the prime ingredient in all of them. Rollers on the frizzen spring also seems to help but according to the article a good lock will spark with no frizzen spring at all if I read it right which would boil down to proper geometry I'm thinking.
He's going to have a part ll next month I'm anxious to read.

Turns out the magic formula we are all looking for is elusive. The article would have been more helpful if they actually varied spring force in each lock. Springs can be “strengthened” by using a helper spring. A replacement mainspring and frizzen spring could be gradually weakened by grinding. To me, that would be a much better test than measuring spring forces on locks that spark well as-is.

 

[Commodore Swab]

The other key factor is how the toe of the frizzen engages the spring. Much can be done tweaking this and much can be screwed up VERY quickly.

 

[Don Steele]

The other key factor is how the toe of the frizzen engages the spring. Much can be done tweaking this and much can be screwed up VERY quickly.

Excellent points. Polishing the foot of the frizzen and the face of the frizzen spring without removing metal is as far as I go on mine. I also apply a little gun grease in that contact area as well. I don’t know the force required, but the movement is smooooth….

 

[Gtrubicon]

@Gtrubicon, there's a lot of information to be found by searching the Forums. Springs are hardened and tempered. Most can be filed, but some have to be sanded, or honed to reduce the width of the springs. Do use some sort of spring vise to remove and reinstall the spring. Pay attention to @TDM's instructions to reduce only a few thousandths of width at a time. be sure to polish out all file marks. Those marks will be the place where the spring breaks. Be very cautious about filing on the bend. This is quite susceptible to breakage. People have use trigger pull gauges to estimate spring tension. Bu as @rich pierce mentions, such balance measurements are elusive. Balance is more achieved by a trial-and-error method. I have known more than one shooter who completed a match after the frizzen spring broke. The frizzen spring need only enough tension to hold the frizzen over the pan and to keep it from rebounding back onto the flint.

Thank you for putting so much effort into your response. This will be very helpful.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Excellent points. Polishing the foot of the frizzen and the face of the frizzen spring without removing metal is as far as I go on mine. I also apply a little gun grease in that contact area as well. I don’t know the force required, but the movement is smooooth….

Messing with the toe you can make a frizzen pop up at first contact or make full contact all the way. It's crucial that the toe work with the spring pressures (main and frizzen) as they all work together. Tweaking can be an art, and when it's dialed in its simply beautiful.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Messing with the toe you can make a frizzen pop up at first contact or make full contact all the way. It's crucial that the toe work with the spring pressures (main and frizzen) as they all work together. Tweaking can be an art, and when it's dialed in its simply beautiful.

Wow that’s a lot of sparks!

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Mike Lea, the well know gunsmith has in stock an excellent supply of both english black and french amber flints. The french amber really spark well. You can contact him via email at: [email protected] He comes highly recommended as he has done some great gun work for me.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Rifleman1776]

Too many variables to give you a definitive answer. Previous replies all good. I have had excellent luck with German sawn flints of various stones. Using in a good lock is essential. Cheap flint locks are an exercise in frustration.

 

[Pete G]

I think my lock is hard on flints, last shooting session I got 27 shots from 1 flint. Today I shot just over 40 and I went through 3 flints, the third is in the gun with 10 shots on it. All black English flints from track. Is this the norm?

It is not the norm. If the lock is a good one, and set up well, you should get close to 100 shots per flint.

 

[The Damned Yankee]

Wow that’s a lot of sparks!

Yeah, that's how it is suppose to work! I tell my students that one or two sparks is NOT sparking. You need / want a shower of sparks into the pan.
As to where to get flints..... Use to be you could go to a shoot or camp. That was the best place to get them. Most vendors had cans out and you picked out your own! This was great. Not only could you pick out your size but also the width, thickness and bevel that worked best in your lock. Lately though, there seems to be more pottery, clothiers and soap venders than guns, gun parts & tools at camps. And yes when you find them the are more expensive these days (everything is).
I also tell my students I see more $3000 guns fail to fire because the shooter was too cheap to change a $3 flint!
Be careful out there! TDY

 

[boberator]

Many years ago I bought some flints to try to save wearing out the original ones. I think they were said to be”synthetic “ flints or they had been sawed from a suitable mineral. They didn’t look original since there were no flakes removed but had perfectly parallel sides and a good angle on each end.
That particular batch sparked very well and lasted well. They were good for hunting but obviously didn’t look authentic. They were costly for those days and I never tried to find more. When you get the hang of knapping you can use good old American chert like you see in prehistoric arrowheads. Otherwise the French and English flints can be bought in sizes to fit various **** jaws. I honestly never tried to count how many shots I got from a flint before needing to swap ends or resharpen so I can’t add to that part of the discussion.

 

[Commodore Swab]

There are other options besides the standard recommendations

 

[Rifleman1776]

didn’t look authentic.

That "look authentic" really tickles my toes. Authentic what? Centuries ago presentation grade cased firearms often had polished sawn flints. They looked like jewels, sparked and were genuinely 'authentic'. Wanna look like a Mountain Man carrying an early flinter? Knapped might be more 'authentic'. But at an event today nobody is going to notice or care. I used sawn flints in my Rev. period longrifle for half a century. Nobody ever criticized.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Where to buy good flints? I’m using flints from track, French and English. Is there better available?

No.

 

[bldtrailer]

you can make your own come to Kempton gun makers fair I will have gun flint demos