For anyone considering an Indian manufactured Flintlock

[springfield art]

how about an Ojibwa?

The Native guy in Yellowstone, that ran the casino? He said in one episode that the white man took the Indian's land, so now he was taking back the white man's money to buy back the land! Great series, BTW.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

The Native guy in Yellowstone, that ran the casino? He said in one episode that the white man took the Indian's land, so now he was taking back the white man's money to buy back the land! Great series, BTW.

Indians did not "own" any land. They lived on it, period. They did nothing to take care of it, improve it or manage it. They were and still are users, period. There was no way for an Indian or tribe to actually "own" the land way back when. They moved constantly and did nothing to make anything permanent. Only a VERY few tribes ever had permanent type settlements. More liberal garbage and attempts to re write history and blame whites.

 

[Surfinator58]

As far as I know only smooth boys however one very popular model is the baker rifle which was the star of the show on Michael Bean's Sharps rifles years ago on PBS I know British muzzleloader bought one and I've heard they can be rifled after the fact

 

[Rock Home Isle]

do the INDIAN gun makers only make smooth bore musket types, or do they also make rifled guns? as I have never seen any. just courious?

I’ve only ever seen smoothbores.

 

[toot]

as only I have seen smooth bore's. I wonder if back in the day if they ever made an original riffled any thing- type of gun? any in collections or Museaum's?

 

[tenngun]

do the INDIAN gun makers only make smooth bore musket types, or do they also make rifled guns? as I have never seen any. just courious?

I think they are all smooth, as they are made to send to controlled countries and rifle isn’t needed

 

[springfield art]

I think they are all smooth, as they are made to send to controlled countries and rifle isn’t needed

Rifling would add a great deal to the cost, and the metal would have to be highest quality to 'take' the rifling work. I don't think the India mfgrs. have any incentive or desire to make rifled arms.

 

[Surfinator58]

Rifling would add a great deal to the cost, and the metal would have to be highest quality to 'take' the rifling work. I don't think the India mfgrs. have any incentive or desire to make rifled arms.

Please see the laboratory results from HP white at the beginning of this thread! They found without a doubt the metal used in the India guns through microscopic photography as well as crystalline structure is the same metal used in gun making in Europe and the US have a good day

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Please see the laboratory results from HP white at the beginning of this thread! They found without a doubt the metal used in the India guns through microscopic photography as well as crystalline structure is the same metal used in gun making in Europe and the US have a good day

I could not find anywhere in that report a defined type of metal. Maybe I just missed something in trying to read it on my phone but I can't see how one can state its the same metal used in Euro and US gunmaking as different makers use different metals.

 

[tenngun]

Rifling would add a great deal to the cost, and the metal would have to be highest quality to 'take' the rifling work. I don't think the India mfgrs. have any incentive or desire to make rifled arms.

That’s interesting. It seems every smoothie barrel I’ve ever bought ran the same or higher then a rifle barrel. I’m thinking rice or chocrain are getting about 20% more then green mountain right now.

 

[Texas Gil]

Thoughts on 15 years of experience with my loyalist English fowler /trade gun 20ga.
For the first years I was totally happy learning about flintlocks and shooting holes in paper. Results were always mixed. Would shoot poa at 25 yds and at 50 yds always 10 to 12" spreads with a few hitting poa. I kind of thought I needed to adjust the load to the gun and I learned it was a process. Next few years after multiple loads tried not much improvement. went on the forum and got good advice and tried more loading ideas that worked for others but some improvement still lots of fliers , no real group at 50 yds. I had noticed over these years there seemed to be a tight spot in bore. So I called Gunsmith for Loyalist arms in USA, name ***** Reber( muzzle loader shop, Arkansas) he said send him the barrel. I did and he found the tight spot and reamed the bore. Got it back and now finally I get sub 4" groups at 50 and no fliers!!! Final thoughts, are I probably would not buy another Indian gun now that I know what I didn't know 15 years ago. They are kit guns as some have mentioned. Hope this helps

 

[FlinterNick]

Just looked over an Indian made Charleville from Military Heritage. Barrel is ok but the plug is almost past the Pan, way too much thread, nothing I can or will do about it, needs to be drilled and somehow notched or bored out. No witness marks on the breech area, so put Dycem on the face of the plug, plug does not engage full circle and likely will need a shim welded on it. This was not assembled correctly, with potential consequences of water and or gas getting in the plug threads, will it blow up…. Not likely no. I’m going to assume that a good number of blackpowder guns are not breeched with an absolute fit, but its the most important safety feature of a musket and should be done with absolute care.

Barrel itself is not bad taper is decent, its a heavy barrel weighing around 5.5 lbs

No DOM Weld scar on the underside, this is a likely a 12L14 tube or carbon steel tubing likely in the 1020-1050 range.

Now to find a barrel guy that will actually work on an Indian barrel, Rice Co and Coleraine will not.

 

[Texas Gil]

Just looked over an Indian made Charleville from Military Heritage. Barrel is ok but the plug is almost past the Pan, way too much thread, nothing I can or will do about it, needs to be drilled and somehow notched or bored out. No witness marks on the breech area, so put Dycem on the face of the plug, plug does not engage full circle and likely will need a shim welded on it. This was not assembled correctly, with potential consequences of water and or gas getting in the plug threads, will it blow up…. Not likely no. I’m going to assume that a good number of blackpowder guns are not breeched with an absolute fit, but its the most important safety feature of a musket and should be done with absolute care.

Barrel itself is not bad taper is decent, its a heavy barrel weighing around 5.5 lbs

No DOM Weld scar on the underside, this is a likely a 12L14 tube or carbon steel tubing likely in the 1020-1050 range.

Now to find a barrel guy that will actually work on an Indian barrel, Rice Co and Coleraine will not.

Just looked over an Indian made Charleville from Military Heritage. Barrel is ok but the plug is almost past the Pan, way too much thread, nothing I can or will do about it, needs to be drilled and somehow notched or bored out. No witness marks on the breech area, so put Dycem on the face of the plug, plug does not engage full circle and likely will need a shim welded on it. This was not assembled correctly, with potential consequences of water and or gas getting in the plug threads, will it blow up…. Not likely no. I’m going to assume that a good number of blackpowder guns are not breeched with an absolute fit, but its the most important safety feature of a musket and should be done with absolute care.

Barrel itself is not bad taper is decent, its a heavy barrel weighing around 5.5 lbs

No DOM Weld scar on the underside, this is a likely a 12L14 tube or carbon steel tubing likely in the 1020-1050 range.

Now to find a barrel guy that will actually work on an Indian barrel, Rice Co and Coleraine will not.

 

[Texas Gil]

Call ***** Reber, Muzxle Loader Shop (870) 929-6257
He’s very knowledgeable and prices are very reasonable and I would highly recommend him. Has a ton of Indian gun experience lock work, barrels etc

 

[springfield art]

Call ***** Reber, Muzxle Loader Shop (870) 929-6257
He’s very knowledgeable and prices are very reasonable and I would highly recommend him. Has a ton of Indian gun experience lock work, barrels etc

So interesting that there's an India-gun specialist! Who knew? Good for him and you for posting that. I have no need right now for that service, but will file it away. With all the bad press the "Indians" get, it's nice to know someone swims against the tide and finds a niche to work in!

 

[wganz]

So interesting that there's an India-gun specialist! Who knew? Good for him

Cannot copy a link on this iPhone but he does sell Loyalist Arms muskets.

Linkage to Loyalist Arms muskets available at this shop.

 

[stank]

Hey hey fellow Forum readers I found this on Middlesex Valley Trading it's a great article on the structural integrity of India made black powder guns. The scientific data is a report from a Testing Lab called HP white they are widely regarded as experts in the field of metallurgy! This document clears up a lot of misconceptions about India made flintlocks one of which is inferior materials which this laboratory clearly states is incorrect they go on to say that the manufacturing of this particular weapon which failed due to gross negligence is manufactured to Modern standards and is every bit as good as European and American made muzzleloaders when it comes to the manufacturing process and structural integrity of the components! I know there will be those who disregard this information but being from a scientific lab it is much harder to dispute although I'm sure there will be those who try to

Interesting

 

[Frod733]

Cannot copy a link on this iPhone but he does sell Loyalist Arms muskets.

Linkage to Loyalist Arms muskets available at this shop.

Went to this site. I dont see how to find prices, details on guns. When i click on a picture, just shows the item, but goes nowhere. Ideas?

 

[user 48702]

Went to this site. I dont see how to find prices, details on guns. When i click on a picture, just shows the item, but goes nowhere. Ideas?

You can go direct to Loyalist website and find prices there.
Loyalist Arms

 

[wganz]

You can go direct to Loyalist website and find prices there.
Loyalist Arms

That I didn't know. Do recall that Loyalist Arms had posted 'somewhere' that he was helping them with converting their muskets.