Forge question

[pondoro]

I was about to make a quick and dirty propane powered forge. I've got a piece of railroad track for an anvil. But TSC has anthracite coal on sale for $4.50 a bag (40#). Feel free to talk me into a coal forge if they are easy to make.

I made one of those twisted forks last Saturday using only a torch. I needed a bit more heat.

 

[eggwelder]

you have a computer, look up brakedrum forge and go from there. mine is made from dirt and its in a wheelbarrow, hand cranked blower. charcoal made from pallets. your anvil is good. i aspire to a forge made from wood ash, look up Tai Goo. i have a propane forge and a mini propane forge. don`t really use them much. ask any questions, lots of guys will probably chime in.

 

[Silky921]

Go for it dude. Been thinking about the same thing myself.

 

[Crewdawg445]

What do you want to know!? Lol, coal isn't cheap... 4 bones for a bag but think about shipping... Reason I don't use it. However coal is certainly the ticket. I personally use hardwood charcoal, not briquettes.

I have two forges, one a propane and the other a coal/ charcoal. Use them both equally.

Both forges will reach welding temps. In fact, so hot my digital thermometer stops reading at 1,800 degrees and just says hot.

There are some important factors to take into account for efficiency.

1. Insulation

2. Refractory lining

3. Feeding the forge/ air regulation

My next forge will be permanently made into the ground. Overall, I've learned allot from trial and errors, certainly worth it because I love forging and manipulating metal at my desire!

Fire set I forged with S hooks... it's addictive.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

interesting...which setup would you prefer to use if you ever decided to forge a spoon/fork?

 

[Crewdawg445]

My smaller forge obviously due to the stock size. However, I forged the fire set in my smaller propane forge, it's all how you manipulate and work the metal.

One highly overlooked area is the anvil... it'll make or break your work IMO.

Although I don't have a good 300lb or even a 200lb anvil yet what I've learned is it's far more important than the forge itself... I made the above anvil from hardened steel, welded it together and added a piece of hardened round stock and a railroad spike cut in half. Works phenomenally well for my smaller projects. However I am saving for a larger anvil as my skills develop I've realized I need one!

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I spent a short time six years ago working under a blacksmith just for the experience of it. mainly making penannulars. the one thing I noticed is that there are different harmonics in anvils largely dependent on how well they are made. a "dead anvil" (if that is the correct term I remember) will really tear your shoulder up after a long day when compared to a live anvil.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Absolutely right!

 

[pondoro]

I can carry these 50 pound bags home in my truck, so shipping is no issue. Storage would become an issue at some point if I bought too many.

What do you use for a refractory? The smaller forge plans I've seen use soft bricks or ceramic blankets, but I cannot find them near me, and shipping is expensive. I was considering mixing refractory cement (available at Menards) with vermiculite.

 

[Curt]

pondoro What you want is poccahonis coal not the anthricite stuff,it will spark so bad your liable to set the wrong thing to burnin.I see you are in OHIO and there some good coal suppliers in your state,its not cheep but its some of the best thats available today.Just google it Curt

 

[BillinOregon]

My first anvil was a 50 kg Russian cast steel anvil that Harbor Freight used to sell. When I replaced it with an old 120-pound Trenton, the difference was significant. I like my propane forge for the speed it permits, but my heart lies with my Tim Lively-style washtub charcoal forge.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Curt is right on with the coal, sorry I didn't mention that.

Okay, check out anvilfire.com

This website is fantastic, it's were I purchase all my forge supplies. I actually use kaowool for insulation, preferably 3" if possible. Now with kaowool absolutely DO NOT use this without a refractory coating! Reason being, if you inhale the particles your lungs will be crowing.

For a refractory coating I personally prefer ITC-100 which is a highly reflective high heat ceramic coating. Expensive it is, but it'll make your small forge very effective and efficient.

You also can find other suitable refractory coatings, just be aware they will not be as efficient as the ITC-100. I found a large 25lb bucket of a castable refractory cement at my local menards made by Meeco. Stuff works great and is rather impressive. Now since it's a castable cement it does have larger pebbles within the powdered mixture. All I do before mixing is sift through the powder with a strainer to remove the larger debris, leaving a fine material.

With any coating they will crack, several applications are required after the first fire. A gradual slow heating is mandatory to allow the refractory coating to set and burn off excessive moisture. Worth the efforts though!

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I bought a used anvil a bunch of years ago that I can not make heads or tails over it. it is old as sin, looks like it was cast, about 40-45#...maybe more but not by much, and a really murky dark red paint that may or may not be original, there are no markings that I can tell anywhere on it despite it looking too complex to be home built...I use it for simple hammering tasks :idunno:

 

[Canute Rex]

Pondoro, there are advantages and disadvantages to coal and propane. The best two things about propane are 1) it's clean, both for your lungs and for the steel and 2) the start up and shut down are instant.

You can find directions on line for making a propane burner our of hardware store plumbing parts. I made one for my neighbor and even with the propane regulator and fittings the total price was about $75. For the ceramic blanket insulation eBay is your friend.

If you go for coal, I'd advise you to spend the money on a good, deep, rectangular firepot. You can make the table to support it out of anything you like, but a real cast firepot with a clinker breaker will save you a lot of frustration.

By the way, never buy a Harbor Freight ASO (Anvil Shaped Object). They are poorly designed and made out of whatever scrap came down the chute. Better to buy an old dished out one and take it to a local machine shop to have it welded up with hard surfacing rod and surface ground.

 

[crockett]

Wayne Goddard wrote a book- "the $50 knife shop". He gives instructions for a one brick forge using propane. You need a special type brick used for fireplaces. This fireplace brick will heat up and glow. That's with regular propane. My brick cracked from the heat but I used wire to hold it together. I over did it and got the steel up to a light yellow- almost white heat and burned out all the carbon. You want a medium red heat for forging. In any event it can be done. I only forged a couple of blades and decided I am a stock- removal guy.
That same book has a set up for a charcoal forge with an air source to raise the heat.
I also used a short section of railroad tie for an anvil. For what I was doing it was okay although a real anvil is obviously better- it has a heat treated surface, etc.
See if Wick reads this thread as he could give you some good advice.

 

[eggwelder]

You won't need fancy forge set-ups. i keep mine simple as I`m in the military and therefore move a lot.
this is my large propane forge, about 65lbs of steel and sex appeal. its lined with free ceramic wool castoff from an oilfield refractory furnace builder, and that is "painted" with Vesuvius 3000, also free from same builder.

this is my charcoal forge, when i move, i dump it out, and take only the tweer. roached out wheelbarrows or otherwise are easy to get. its made of clay dug from the back yard. i want to build a wood ash forge when i`m permanent, they are rearrangeable in size and shape, and you can use charcoal, which is the traditional smithing fuel, used long before coal. burns hotter and cleaner. i also find charcoal much more relaxing, as there is little noise associated with it, and it smells like BBQ. i use an old champion hand cranked blower. if i need to weld, i use a bit of sheetmetal to help keep the heat in

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I bought a used anvil a bunch of years ago that I can not make heads or tails over it. it is old as sin, looks like it was cast, about 40-45#...maybe more but not by much, and a really murky dark red paint that may or may not be original, there are no markings that I can tell anywhere on it despite it looking too complex to be home built...I use it for simple hammering tasks :idunno:

I wasn't implying somebody should buy one of these, I was just hoping somebody would know what it is that I have.

 

[eggwelder]

pic?

 

[eggwelder]

IMHO these two books are minimum you should get- Art of Blacksmithing, by Alex Bealer, and The Complete Modern Blacksmith, by Alexander Weygers. those two books are like bibles to me, and are invaluable to a beginner(if you are). the $50 Knife book is really good as well, the same if you can find Tim Lively`s DVD.

 

[BillinOregon]

I also like "The Backyard Blacksmith" by Lorelei Sims. She's great on the basics.
Agree on the Harbor Freight ASOs. They quit carrying the Russian cast steel anvil close to 10 years ago and replaced with Chinese cast iron. No bueno.