Forward Lock Screw on Percussion rifle

[WashingtonCounty]

I'm building a bench copy of the family rifle from southwestern PA circa 1830 by family lore. I assumed that since it had a capbox and a replacement percussion lock that it was originally a percussion gun. I found a probably maker from Kaufman's PA rifle books. (A

be Williams)

I've had to make a bunch of repairs and reinforcements and when I cleaned up the lock mortise to let in some new wood, I found a front lock screw hole that had been patched over. I know the existing lock is a replacement because it doesn't fit the lock mortise and was attached with a stove bolt and nut going the wrong way through the lock.

I'm now wondering that a backwooods smith of the period might have been selling rifles with capboxes and gave the buyer a choice of flint or percussion. (Barrel shown is the new one for the copy)

.

Appreciate any opinions!

 

[Tanselman]

The guard on your rifle, with its double spurs on the rear, is a percussion era style guard. The large, elaborate capbox suggests, to me at least, an early percusison gun. The gun could have been made as a later flint after the percussion era started, as was often done in more rural areas where percussion caps remained hard to get for some years after percussion locks became available , or it could have had a two-bolt early percussion lock, or an older 2-bolt flintlock converted to percussion for this rifle and the front bolt hole retained. Your old rifle's front hole has been plugged for many years, so a little hard to tell now. I'd install a percussion single bolt lock on your new rifle, since it has a capbox in butt.

I'd be interested in knowing how you arrived at your attribution of the rifle. Does it have a name or initials on the top barrel flat behind the rear sight? If you'd like help with verifying its identification, posting pictures of any name or initials on the barrel, better views of the elaborate capbox, tang, and of one original forestock inlay, might allow us to help you with a more positive attribution or identification.

Shelby Gallien

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

I attributed it with a chain of logic that won’t stand up in court

My grandfather was born in 1895 and he gave me his recollection of the rifle’s history. He also showed me the log cabin he was born in and the family farm a mile or so down the road

I found a dead ringer for the rifle and capbox in Kauffman’s “The PA-Ky Rifle” made by S Post. (Plate 262). S Post’s smithing days were later than family lore suggested, so I found his mentor, Abe Williams. The Williams rifle (Plate 291) has the same architecture except with a patch box. Both smiths worked on Craft Creek near Prosperity, PA, which is a mile or so away from the family farm

So I figured that was a smoking gun
The rifle is in the style of the region as shown in Kauffman’s “Allegheny and Westmoreland Co” book. So it could have been another local smith

I can’t find any signatures, but the metal is so pitted that I doubt anything would show up unless I draw filed it
It’s very slim and elegant on the outside and very badly built internally, so whoever forged the barrel or did the inletting might not have wanted to sign it ;-). I wonder if it was an apprentice’s first rifle?

 

[WashingtonCounty]

The other thing that had me up in the air on the lock was Kauffman’s note that Williams “made both flint and percussion guns…and he worked from 1830 to 1860”. Willams did put a signed brass plate on the barrel, which my rifle is missing

That area of PA was very backwoods and my family quite poor, which made me think that they might have preferred flint

I left out one link in the chain-S Post apprenticed with GW Craft who apprenticed with Williams; from Prosperity PA. Craft made half stock percussion rifles from1860 to 1875

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Here are some more photos, appreciate any thoughts!

You're correct on the trigger guard. The MLBS Ohio/Vincent guard is just about a drop in. As is the Davis small double set trigger.

Tang was broken in several places. It had been thinned out to 1/8" or less, which didn't leave much metal for the large tang screws All 3 screws were wood screws, there aren't any of the usual "through the wrist to the triggerplate" screws. There was an attractive old repair of poured pewter in the rear third with an oval german silver thumbplate covering the joint to the tang metal.
The stock inlay behind the cheekpiece is quite a bit of folk art. I think they were going for an eagle. My kids always referred to it as a penguin. I thought it might have been an owner addition, but it's nicely inletted and pinned with silver nails. I'm on the fence about duplicating it on my copy.

A couple of the inlays were applied to the surface with nails. Most were carefully inletted

 

[Tanselman]

I looked at the rifles in Kauffman's book to see if I could see the same similarities. I've collected, bought, sold , and published on these rifles for over 40 years now, and my thoughts are a little different. Unfortunately, Kauffman's book is one of the oldest, and most out of date, references we have, and his pictures do not show much detail. When I looked at his image 262, I see a rifle with a different capbox, different and more pronounced comb on the rifle, more butt curvature. and shorter side facings around the lock plate. I do not see the strong similarities that you see. When I looked at Kaufmann's image 291, the comb of that rifle is softer and much more like the comb on your rifle, but the side facings around the lock are still shorter [less side facing wood in front of, and behind, the lock plate] than side facings on your gun, and its wrist is still a little thicker than the wrist on your rifle. I can't make the same "leap of faith" that you do in placing your rifle within those two maker's guns.

What I can see from your photos that may help identify, or at least place, your rifle are the following:
1. longer side facings around the lock plate,
2. thinner wrist, usually indicating an earlier rifle,
3. thinner than normal brass butt plate, based on what I can see in the top "return" section,
4. long 3-screw tang
5. diamond inlays in cheekpiece and forestock.
6. Soft comb with little drop where it meets the wrist

The thin brass butt plate, long 3-screw tang, long toe plate, and use of diamond inlays suggest, to me at least, possibly a gun of more southern origin. I do have a question: where is the first barrel wedge located on your rifle, and is it in the same location as the first wedge in the Kauffman rifle in image 291? I cannot see your first wedge, and if it is not in the same position as the 291 rifle's wedge, they were probably not made by the same hand.

It would really help if you could provide standard half-shots of your family rifle, showing the complete butt out to about 6" past the lock plate area, for both sides of the gun, front and rear, plus a good picture of the rear ramrod pipe and a picture of one of the original forestock inlays. Also, does your rifle have barrel wedges or pins to hold the barrel to the stock, and are the forestock inlays placed at the barrel wedges or in between the barrel wedges? Knowing these things will help us place your rifle better. With a little more information, perhaps we can better locate your rifle for you.

Shelby Gallien

 

[William Lincoln]

What a cool rifle to recondition/rebuild. With the
Family history you have a rare heirloom of a rifle.

 

[WashingtonCounty]

What a cool rifle to recondition/rebuild. With the
Family history you have a rare heirloom of a rifle.

Thanks! I does feel pretty good. One of my kids will get the "restored/salvaged" original and one will get the bench copy. I'm 70+ so they wont have to wait forever ;-)

 

[WashingtonCounty]

I looked at the rifles in Kauffman's book to see if I could see the same similarities. I've collected, bought, sold , and published on these rifles for over 40 years now, and my thoughts are a little different. Unfortunately, Kauffman's book is one of the oldest, and most out of date, references we have, and his pictures do not show much detail. When I looked at his image 262, I see a rifle with a different capbox, different and more pronounced comb on the rifle, more butt curvature. and shorter side facings around the lock plate. I do not see the strong similarities that you see. When I looked at Kaufmann's image 291, the comb of that rifle is softer and much more like the comb on your rifle, but the side facings around the lock are still shorter [less side facing wood in front of, and behind, the lock plate] than side facings on your gun, and its wrist is still a little thicker than the wrist on your rifle. I can't make the same "leap of faith" that you do in placing your rifle within those two maker's guns.

What I can see from your photos that may help identify, or at least place, your rifle are the following:
1. longer side facings around the lock plate,
2. thinner wrist, usually indicating an earlier rifle,
3. thinner than normal brass butt plate, based on what I can see in the top "return" section,
4. long 3-screw tang
5. diamond inlays in cheekpiece and forestock.
6. Soft comb with little drop where it meets the wrist

The thin brass butt plate, long 3-screw tang, long toe plate, and use of diamond inlays suggest, to me at least, possibly a gun of more southern origin. I do have a question: where is the first barrel wedge located on your rifle, and is it in the same location as the first wedge in the Kauffman rifle in image 291? I cannot see your first wedge, and if it is not in the same position as the 291 rifle's wedge, they were probably not made by the same hand.

It would really help if you could provide standard half-shots of your family rifle, showing the complete butt out to about 6" past the lock plate area, for both sides of the gun, front and rear, plus a good picture of the rear ramrod pipe and a picture of one of the original forestock inlays. Also, does your rifle have barrel wedges or pins to hold the barrel to the stock, and are the forestock inlays placed at the barrel wedges or in between the barrel wedges? Knowing these things will help us place your rifle better. With a little more information, perhaps we can better locate your rifle for you.

Shelby Gallien

Sorry it took me a while to get these to you. I had to borrow a camera to get decent images

Some construction notes:
-There is no ramrod entry pipe
-Barrel is pinned through staples
-Pins are through the stock, not through inlays
-Nose cap is brass sheet with wood showing under the barrel
-Barrel inlet was scooped out half round with only the side flat inletted (except at the nose cap
-The rifle is so slim because there is essentially no web between the barrel and the ramrod hole/groove.
-The front lock screw hole goes straight through the middle of the ramrod hole. I'm wondering if the maker just abandoned it an filled it in.
-Ramrod pipes were sheet brass, folded into the half round barrel inlet instead of pinned

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Thought a pic of the drum might be useful. Not a lot of threads holding the beech plug in. Scary