fouling shot

[tna]

i've read about competition shoots that give a fouling shot. im assuming this is cause shooting a clean bore and a dirty give diffrent results. is this necessary for hunting? i'm not worried about 1/2 inch diffrence in grouping. but i'll take all the help w/ accuracy i can get. also after i'm done cleaning i hose the bore with wd 40 and leave it. right before i load it for my next shoot i run a couple clean patches through it and snap a few caps. is this enough or should i apply more lube before loading.

 

[Birddog6]

Mine shoots 1" off the normal place with a clean barrel, however, I know where that shot is going to hit thus I compensate for it on the initial shot when hunting or target shooting.

As for the WD40, I wouldn't have a can of it on the place, but some people like it. I think they mainly like it because it is cheap & easily available....

I prefer Ballistol to just about anything & all I have used for the past 5 years or so.

I ran a little test of my own a few months ago. I took about 12) 16 penny nails & ground a flat spot on each one of them & then drove them into a 2x4 just enough to make them stick. Then I took each nail & marked what I lubed each one.

Ballistol Non-Aerosol / WD-40 / Break-Free / T/C Bore Butter / Natural Lube 1000 / 30 Wgt. Motor Oil / Rem Oil / Ballistol Aerosol / My patch grease / My Liquid Patch Lube / Lehigh Lube / MooseMilk

The best rust inhibitor of them ALL was the 30 wgt motor oil. #2 place was Natural Lube 1000, # 3 was a tossup from my patch grease, the Lehigh, Break Free, and Ballistol.
Now this was left outside in lots of rainy weather, but not IN the rain, just exposed outside under roof in an open shed. None of them rusted for the first month. Then about 2 months they were starting to spot. In 3 months it was getting along pretty good. 4 months later the 30 wgt. motor oil Definately holding up the best but is just now starting to rust.
I didn't expect my liquid patch lube to do well in this as it is a patch lube, not a rust inhibitor. Nor did I think the Lehigh would do well& it did nothing great. The others did about as I expected with exception to the Natural Lube 1000 doing better than I expected.

 

[cayugad]

As Birddog was saying... some of my rifles like a fowling shot and some it is not necessary. The only way to know is to get out there and shoot.

WD-40 has it's place, but not in my rifles anymore. I have used it, but it will build up a ... varnish almost type substance.. with continued use. Granted your swabbing the majority of it out the barrel so I am sure that is not a problem, but I just never take the chance anymore. I had a couple rifles years ago that all I ever used was WD-40. They finally stopped working and had to be broken down and really cleaned and scrubbed to get all the varnish off them. I like to use Birchwood Casey Sheath or REM OIL. I just spray a patch down and swab the bore and then wipe the rifle off with it after that. Before I shoot I take a damp patch of alcohol and swab the barrel then a couple dry patches and load as normal. In the inlines I can hear if the nipple is clear.. In the sidelocks I pop a couple caps...

 

[tna]

what do you think about just plain old mil-spec gun oil. i've got about 2 gal. of it from my days in the service. never used it as a rust inibitor, just lubricant in my non-ml guns. so should i lube the barell just after cleaning or before loading too?

 

[cayugad]

I think that military spec oil is like Break Free CLP. I use that from time to time. In fact today when I was putting the .62 caliber away after hunting/shooting it today, I swabbed the barrel with CLP. I will be taking it out again after deer tomorrow probably.

Before I load the next time I take a damp alcohol patch and swab the barrel. That will pull most of the oil out. Then some dry ones, and then pop a couple caps in the Renegade .62 caliber.

Actually that Military Spec oil is a very good quality oil. I put that right up there with REM OIL and the others.

As for lubing the barrel between shots.. I do not do it. After I shoot my Hawkins or Renegades, I spray a patch with isopropyl alcohol and swab the fowling. If the fowling seems real heavy, then I do two alcohol patches. After that I run two dry patches and that dries the barrel. I use them as my next wet swab patches.

Any lube the barrel gets is off the fiber wads, or off the patches that surround the roundball. As for in the other rifles when I shoot conicals, they are lubed so there is no need to add more to the barrel. It only lead to misfires and hangfires for me....

 

[leadball]

i personally do no tkae a fouling shot before hunting. When i shoot jezabel the first time out of a clean barrel, yea its off a bit from all consecutive shots after that, but in hunting were the deer kill zone is much bigger, i dont think it makes a difference

 

[roundball]

Mine shoots 1" off the normal place with a clean barrel, however, I know where that shot is going to hit thus I compensate for it on the initial shot when hunting or target shooting.

As for the WD40, I wouldn't have a can of it on the place, but some people like it. I think they mainly like it because it is cheap & easily available....

I prefer Ballistol to just about anything & all I have used for the past 5 years or so.

I ran a little test of my own a few months ago. I took about 12) 16 penny nails & ground a flat spot on each one of them & then drove them into a 2x4 just enough to make them stick. Then I took each nail & marked what I lubed each one.

Ballistol Non-Aerosol / WD-40 / Break-Free / T/C Bore Butter / Natural Lube 1000 / 30 Wgt. Motor Oil / Rem Oil / Ballistol Aerosol / My patch grease / My Liquid Patch Lube / Lehigh Lube / MooseMilk

The best rust inhibitor of them ALL was the 30 wgt motor oil. #2 place was Natural Lube 1000, # 3 was a tossup from my patch grease, the Lehigh, Break Free, and Ballistol.
Now this was left outside in lots of rainy weather, but not IN the rain, just exposed outside under roof in an open shed. None of them rusted for the first month. Then about 2 months they were starting to spot. In 3 months it was getting along pretty good. 4 months later the 30 wgt. motor oil Definately holding up the best but is just now starting to rust.
I didn't expect my liquid patch lube to do well in this as it is a patch lube, not a rust inhibitor. Nor did I think the Lehigh would do well& it did nothing great. The others did about as I expected with exception to the Natural Lube 1000 doing better than I expected.

Interesting test Keith...being a dedicated NL1000 user, I appreciate the objective analysis...thanks for sharing
:redthumb:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I lightly lube with Lehigh Valley or moose milk before shooting. This gets me closer-on than a "dry" bore. The loaded ball, of course, lubes the bore before any fouling, but a stored bore tends to be coated with gummy oil, dust and heavy lube from when it was put away. I dry patch and then re-lube lightly but thoroughly. The first shot is usually a bit low, but if I aim center lungs on the deer (or center squirrel head at 25) it is still good enough. Target shooters care about 1/4" fliers. When I was benching centerfire .22, the fouling shot was most important for gauging wind. Most deer shots seem to register a bit high anyway (Adrenaline? Range misjudgement?), so I worry more about things like deflecting twigs and my movement as I hold for the center of the lungs.

My two month outdoor rust results were, in order of rustlessness on exposed cold-rolled steel flashed once with black powder & hosed off: #1 beeswax applied hot, #2 Murphy's Oil Soap, #3 CLP Breakfree, #4 Lehigh Valley Lube, #5 my Moose Snot (castor oil, Murphy's Oil & beeswax), #6 CLP Breakfree (This showed early staining but no rust), #7 my moose milk w/ castor oil, #8 Natural Lube 1000 Plus, #9 Oilve Oil, #10 Castor Oil.

Interestingly, T/C #13 Solvent and straight glycerine did WORSE than tap water. WD-40 showed rust after a few weeks but was stable thereafter as other "losers" got continually worse. Mutton tallow rusted quickly. Hoppes gun oil produced rust spots after a few weeks.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Just a quick point here... A question was asked about the need for a fouling shot and I'd like to underline how important the general gist of some of the responses is. YOU'VE GOT TO TEST YOUR RIFLE TO SEE! I put that in bold because you just can't rely on somebody else's results. As a case in point, take a look at the following results from my muzzleloading rifles. The measurements stated are vertical and horizontal displacement of the first shot from the centre of the group fired from a dirty barrel.

T/C Renegade, .50cal, 350 grain PRBullets Keith Nose Hollow Point Conical over 85 grains TripleSeven = 7"vert, 6" horizontal. Normal 3-shot 50 yard group size (shot off elbows) is about 1".

Traditions Hawken, .50cal, Hornady .490roundball, Traditions 0.015 prelubed patch over 70 grains TripleSeven = 12+ inches vertical, 8+ inches horizontal. Normal 3-shot 50 yardgroup size is under a half inch.

Traditions Pursuit in-line, .50cal, T/C 270gr MaxiHunter over 90 grains of TripleSeven = 5" vertical, 4" horizontal. Normal 3-shot 50 yard group size is under 1/2".

Not that from the above info one can see that the first shot out of any of these guns would either be completely outside the kill zone or dangerously close to the edge of the kill zone, making for a marginal shot. My Traditions Hawken taught me a lesson the first time I hunted with it and completely missed a nice buck on the first shot. Luckily he stuck around for a second shot!

Now that I've been taught that important lesson I always foul my gun. One shot is all it takes, and then I reload it and lube the barrel will with Bore Butter, as well as wiping off everything around the nipple & hammer and applying lube there to ensure nothing rusts. My rifles stay rust-free for weeks at a time this way, unless I've been out in the pouring rain when I give it a complete cleaning and lubing. If I do this I'll foul it before I go hunting again.

 

[roundball]

:what:
I have to say that I'm shocked to see those numbers...
I shoot TC Hawkens in one caliber or another with different barrel twists & lengths almost every weekend, at 50yds, and the worst I get are cloverleafs from first shot to last in all of them.

Don't know if any of this will help, but I use Goex, Hornady, TC pillow ticking, and Natural Lube 1000.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

RB - I tried a bunch of different loads, and in fact use Goex FFg as my "starter" load in load development. If I can get reasonable groups with the Goex then I switch to T7. When I clean my guns I disassemble them as far as they'll go without having to use fancy tools or big hammers. Perhaps this is the difference - I don't know. But I do know that buck last year must have thought himself pretty safe when that round ball sailed waaaaaaay over his back on the first shot! Needless to say, he's not laughing now that I managed to get off a second shot. Or at least I can't hear him from where he sits inside my freezer! LoL :crackup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have to say that I'm shocked to see those numbers...

Must be the powder??? :shocking:

I couldn't hunt with any of those results.