French Dragoon kit arrived.. let the questions begin!

[Birddog1911]

Like PathfinderNC, I love the lines of the French Dragoon, and ordered the kit from MBS. UNLIKE him, I've never built a kit before! Oh boy, this is gonna be a project.

I too was shocked by how crude the castings are. Didn't realize that I'm going to have to cut the whole for the grotesque mask at the bottom of the buttstock. Yay, yet another thing to learn!

My first real question is to Pathfinder, regarding the tang area. As you'll see from the pic, the tang extends quite a bit beyond the inletting. Now, I shouldn't take anything off of the tang, correct?

First thing, move things around my shop to work easier, and improve the lighting.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Like PathfinderNC, I love the lines of the French Dragoon, and ordered the kit from MBS. UNLIKE him, I've never built a kit before! Oh boy, this is gonna be a project.

I too was shocked by how crude the castings are. Didn't realize that I'm going to have to cut the whole for the grotesque mask at the bottom of the buttstock. Yay, yet another thing to learn!

My first real question is to Pathfinder, regarding the tang area. As you'll see from the pic, the tang extends quite a bit beyond the inletting. Now, I shouldn't take anything off of the tang, correct?

First thing, move things around my shop to work easier, and improve the lighting.

Because the lock location is already established in the pre-carved stock, I inlet that fully first. That way, I was able to adjust the barrel and touch hole correctly to it. (I have had some kits where the channel was cut too far back and some where it wasn't cut far back enough). Note that the touch hole location was carefully marked in pencil at this point of my build.
Dave Person has some excellent tutorials in this forum on inletting barrels which would be a great asset.

 

[Flintandsteel]

A Good book would be a great place to start.
Also, a few posts above by davec2, is someone who really knows how to build. He even uses the proper lock. But you can definitely learn from his posts.

 

[Alan O]

Got my Ketland from MBS a few weeks ago and have been *slowly* moving it forward. First inletting the tang/barrel, soldering the barrel lugs, inletting those, drilling for the barrel lug pins, and just finished inletting the lock. It really helped on the latter when I realized I hadn't moved the hammer out of the way!!

 

[Alan O]

next up, I think, is the tang bolt...

 

[Birddog1911]

I got the lock plate fitted nicely...I think. Started to work on the inletting for the barrel. I wanted to check the end of the breech plug, in relation to the pan.

Am I running into trouble with the angle of the barrel, in relation to the lock?

Is the end of the plug too far back?

Can the touch hole be that much forward of the end of the plug without issue?

Is it safe to go ahead and trim the end of the tang?

 

[Flintandsteel]

Take the breechplug out, and inlet the barrel flush with the stock.
Then reinstall the plug and inlet it so the barrel sits in the same location.
You may shorten the tang a bit, but be careful to leave enough to square up the end of the inlet with the tang.
Your touch hole position will be fine.

 

[Birddog1911]

Well, it's been a little but of time since I got to work on the pistol, between shoots, work, and other projects.

Witha lot of patience, I finally gor the barrel and tang dropped into place. Since I am new to this, I'm sure I didn't do the best job, but I think it's manageable. I'm going to research glass bedding, just to make sure everything is solid. I know I got a little wide on the sides of the tang.

After all of that, I felt that the pan was sitting just a hair too far away, and did some more work to fitting the lock. The picture really doesn't show it in the best light, but I think it's at least safe. But, I still might shave a hair off, so to speak.

Started working on the trigger now. We'll see what kind of time I have, but I'm hoping I can have the trigger inletted, and the barrel screw drilled. Maybe even the side plate.

Pictures are not the best, but progress has been made. I think it makes the gap on the left side look worse than it is.

 

[Birddog1911]

Have to ask @dave_person the question regarding bedding the barrel and tang.

Tried a little more fitting od the trigger, but I started to get frustrated, and decided to walk away for the evening.

 

[John Spartan]

Since I am always looking for my next project…MBS = Muzzleloaders Building Supply?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I urge you not to do anything about the trigger or trigger guard now. That way, as you shape the rest of the stock, you can still move the trigger upward with the profile of the stock if needed to slim the pistol down. Particularly since this is your first gun, you should make a drawing of it that shows where the trigger will be positioned and use that as a guide. Also, fully inlet all of the lock before fooling with triggers. You would have done better if you removed the breech plug to fit the barrel, then installed it and inlet the tang. Don't be in a hurry to get the components installed. With the barrel and lock in place, get your barrel lugs inlet and drilled for pins and inlet the ramrod pipes. Then start shaping the stock and bringing the wood down to the final profile. Start shaping the handle a little to gauge the feel of it in your hand and take off wood if too bulky. Then fit the trigger assembly, and then the pommel. When those are in place and the stock is near final shape, then inlet the trigger guard.

With respect to bedding the barrel, I use Acra Glas that is slightly thickened with fiberglass flock and tinted with stain to match the wood. I do that to seal and strengthen the barrel channel not to fill any gaps. My bedding is varnish thin. In your case, you need to fill some gaps so your epoxy must be thickened a bit more with flock to fill space. There are other 2-part epoxies you can buy but I have used Acra Glas for over 30 years without using any other brand. You can use simple furniture paste wax as a releasing agent on the barrel and a heat gun is useful to release the glue. Finally, you will need to put the lock plate in place to block the epoxy on that side. If you are going to do this, don't inlet the rest of the lock until you bedded the barrel. Finally, look at photos of the originals of these pistols, make a drawing based on those photos and use the plans to guide the locations of components including the tang bolt and lock bolts. That will prevent a lot of mistakes. Below is a link to an auction site showing an original French model 1733 dragoon pistol.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com...l_1733_cavalry_or_dragoon_pist-lot494832.aspxdave

 

[Birddog1911]

Thanks very much, Dave. I do have those photos, as well as I got a drawing from TOTW. I'll stop with the trigger, and follow your advice.

It sounds like you think that the lock needs to be further inletted? I did pull the tang to fit the barrel, and then installed it to finish. Do you think there is more work to do there?

Your advice, as well as others, is greatly appreciated.

@John Spartan, yes, MBS is Muzzleloader Builder Supply. Good folks.

 

[Birddog1911]

Between the advice here, and watching Mike Miller's video, I decided that the best thing to do is go ahead and order another stock. I just know I wouldn't be happy with the fit.

This will also have the added benefit that I can not only practice fitting the other parts, but I'll have the same wood with which to practice carving on.

Guess I'll have more time to work on cleaning up the lock and other parts, as well as resharpening my tools.

Lessons learned:
Read, read, read. Watch videos several times.
Do not fit anything before the barrel, with the plug removed. Then the tang. Then the lock.
Even though I thought I was being patient, be more patient. Make smaller cuts. Walk away and think if you need.

 

[Pete G]

Every shop needs a “Thinking Chair”.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Every shop needs a “Thinking Chair”.

I agree- and In my shop, I also need a “Naughty Chair”

 

[Pete G]

I agree- and In my shop, I also need a “Naughty Chair”

How about a cuss jar??

 

[Birddog1911]

How about a cuss jar??

That's what the 5 gallon bucket is for.

 

[PathfinderNC]

That's what the 5 gallon bucket is for.

 

[dave_person]

Thanks very much, Dave. I do have those photos, as well as I got a drawing from TOTW. I'll stop with the trigger, and follow your advice.

It sounds like you think that the lock needs to be further inletted? I did pull the tang to fit the barrel, and then installed it to finish. Do you think there is more work to do there?

Your advice, as well as others, is greatly appreciated.

@John Spartan, yes, MBS is Muzzleloader Builder Supply. Good folks.

No Birddog,
I meant that the guts of the lock should be inlet before you position the trigger assembly. So all the internal parts should be in place and working without binding on any wood.

dave

 

[Birddog1911]

Tracking what you mean now. Thanks again, Dave.