French Fusil Locks Redux

[Cruzatte]

I have seen two locks that might be candidates for use on a French fusil; the Davis Tulle lock, and the L&R's Early Trade flint lock. I know several of the gun builders on this forum seem to prefer the Davis lock. What I wonder is if the L&R lock is acceptable, and if not, why not.

Cruzatte

 

[rich pierce]

Okwaho would be one of the guys, TG, Mike Roberts also, to comment better.

Whether or not you want to worry about such things is up to you. Despite the rumors, if you build a fusil yourself that somewhat resembles a period piece, most guys will tell you, "great looking gun, well done!" If you persist and ask, "is this detail correct?" then you may learn a thing or two but it should not spoil the joy you have in your gun. If you REALLY want to recreate an original, there is no easy formula, like, "Take a L&R fusil lock, this wood, that barrel, this sideplate and buttplate and trigger guard and you're good to go." If you want to go as far as you can in evoking an original, it requires effort and study, traveling and research. We're spoiled by thinking kits will be just right and all we need to do is assemble and finish and let them do the homework for us. There is no market large enough for French fusils of a particular type to justify production of a lock that fits "perfectly" for that purpose and no other. There are a number of locks that can be adapted with little work to be as close as anyone would want.

 

[tg]

I think they will both work the Davis lock needs so cosmetic work, I believe the Davis lock is better for say a pre 1740 gun, and the L&R is better for a later gun...

 

The L&R lock (which I have on my Tulle copy) works fine and resembles the originals closely enough for me. I think they date from ca. 1730. The Davis lock is not as close a copy (IMHO) and needs alteration, but I am told is a reliable lock. Most reenacting folks don't question either of them, and the choice is limited out there...

 

[Cruzatte]

Whether or not you want to worry about such things is up to you. Despite the rumors, if you build a fusil yourself that somewhat resembles a period piece, most guys will tell you, "great looking gun, well done!" If you persist and ask, "is this detail correct?" then you may learn a thing or two but it should not spoil the joy you have in your gun. If you REALLY want to recreate an original, there is no easy formula, like, "Take a L&R fusil lock, this wood, that barrel, this sideplate and buttplate and trigger guard and you're good to go." If you want to go as far as you can in evoking an original, it requires effort and study, traveling and research. We're spoiled by thinking kits will be just right and all we need to do is assemble and finish and let them do the homework for us. There is no market large enough for French fusils of a particular type to justify production of a lock that fits "perfectly" for that purpose and no other. There are a number of locks that can be adapted with little work to be as close as anyone would want.

Rich,
Yes, your point is well made, and well spoken, sir. My query was really trying to get to "as close in detail as practicable." (I do love that word practicable.) And that level of research is indeed commendable and worthy of one's aspirations. I don't think the museums closest to me have a specimen of a French fusil of say 1720-30 era in their collections, if they have firearms at all. Surely the survival rate must be small. Perhaps the Museum of the Fur Trade might have one, or maybe the Davis Museum in Oklahoma may have one. I don't know. These repositories are far away, and at the moment difficult to get to. And therein as Shakespere would say "lies the rub." At some point the researcher must say "There's likely more out there, but I've done all I could do, and so I publish what I have." And let it go.

Cruzatte

 

[Mike Brooks]

Get this book, You'll learn just exactly how they looked.
>

 

There is also a great site:[url] www.lanouvelle-france.com[/url] that has articles with photos of original Tulle and now St Etienne arms as well as axes and knives of New france.

 

[Henry]

From TM Hamilton book " Colonial Frontier gun "
you need photocopies of pages 46 to 50 .

Inexpensive enough :[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...CATID=4&SUBID=24&STYLEID=95&PARTNUM=BOOK-FINF[/url]

compare locks , file off all the unnecessairy décorations
on your lock , the one at the back of the frizzen can not be filed
it needs to be ground slowly not to heat the already heat
treated steel .

To get rid of the unnecessairy wood if more complicated
you need to see an original or a good repro , I scrape some wood off almost every winter , just do not overdo the finish because you will probably want to take some more wood off some day .

These guns were very light ( some less than 6 pounds )
and the original finish was probably just one good soaking in
some vegetable oil ( wood & metal ) berore shipping to
North America , the owner did the rest of the job .

 

[tg]

Somewhere in this forums archives should be a pic of a Davis "Tulle" lock I reworked using Hamiltons book as a guide it may help you if you compare it to the pic of the new lock on the TOW website.

 

[Cruzatte]

There is also a great site:[url] www.lanouvelle-france.com[/url] that has articles with photos of original Tulle and now St Etienne arms as well as axes and knives of New france.

Hey thanks, Mike. That's a great website.

Cruzatte

 

[Cruzatte]

Somewhere in this forums archives should be a pic of a Davis "Tulle" lock I reworked using Hamiltons book as a guide it may help you if you compare it to the pic of the new lock on the TOW website.

Good. I will. And yes, I've seen the photo somewhere in the archives. Thanks.

And the Bouchard book will make a great addition to my library. I just ordered it. Thanks, Henry.
Cruzatte

 

[Wes/Tex]

Also check out John Donelson's site @ donelson Custom[url] Muzzleloaders.com[/url]. He has an optional feature available where he thickens & lengthens the lock to get closer to the 6" length of the originals as well as reworking the top jaw to create the "ears" that fit around the cock's top bar as did the originals. His site has photos of a couple of his fusils and if you look close you can see what he does.

 

[rich pierce]

Does anybody go ahead and make a custom tumbler w/o an internal bridle? The locks should not have that bridle screw hole on the outside of the plate. :nono:
Just kidding but you can bet that nobody (but me, just to be contrary) wants to get THAT accurate when they make a fusil. Or do they? :rotf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Does anybody go ahead and make a custom tumbler w/o an internal bridle? The locks should not have that bridle screw hole on the outside of the plate. :nono:
Just kidding but you can bet that nobody (but me, just to be contrary) wants to get THAT accurate when they make a fusil. Or do they? :rotf:

Hi Rich,
I've used unbridled locks from TRS in the past and they work surprisingly well, much to my surprise as well! :shocked2:
Henry brings up a good point about the slimness of the original french hunting guns. That's the main place most contemporary builders fall down.
The upper forestock should have no more than 1/16" width of wood left on either side of the barrel. The lower forestock at 1/8". There should be a little more than 1/2 of the barrel showing out of the stock and the ram rod should have about 2/3rds of it exposed. The bottome of the lower forestock should have less than 1/8" wood left before you break into the ram rod hole. The wrist should be less than an 1 1/2" probably closer to 1 3/8". The buttstock should taper nicely and not be "pregnant". keep the lock panels slim too.

 

[Henry]

Does anybody go ahead and make a custom tumbler w/o an internal bridle? The locks should not have that bridle screw hole on the outside of the plate.
Just kidding but you can bet that nobody (but me, just to be contrary) wants to get THAT accurate when they make a fusil. Or do they? ... "


I took for granted that anybody going to assemble and mostly
to order a lock from The Rifle Shoppe would have done his research first , ot at least would have used the time waiting for delivery to do proper research .

If the good people asking for over 1000 $ for an assembled kit gun on the Track w-site , spent some time correcting the lock instead of spending hours making the wood stock
look like a bowling alley , I would be happy enough :rotf: