French Rifles

[nkbj]

Has anyone found a website showing examples of flintlock or percussion rifles produced in France?

 

[blackdog of vt]

Check Christies auction, http://www.christies.com/lotfinder...lock-sporting-rifle-late-5601593-details.aspx

 

[nkbj]

Thanks for the link. Been checking museum sites but they seem to jump from armored knights to Bonaparte to world wars.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Except for the sporting area, the French didn't use many rifles militarily. There was, in fact, the 1793 "Versailles"-'carabine d'infanterie' plus another "Model of the Year Twelve"-'carabine d'infanterie', (a chunky, 8 pound rifle with good sights, which fired "forced balls, twenty-eight to the pound"), these were initially designed for officers and sergeants to help overcome the German and some early British rifle armed troops. The latter version was to also include issue to 'fourriers' of 'voltigeur' companies as well but Napoleon quickly ordered rifles out of service. Some officers carried these or sporting rifles in spite of the Imperial command. Captain Bonnet of the 18th Ligne(Line Regiment) and Lieutenant Begos of the 2nd Swiss Regiment both carried double-barreled, flintlock, sporting rifles into combat. Begos is noted for jumping into a situation in Portugal to save one of the stragglers of his company and dropped the guerrilla soldier at 120 paces! Not a lot of rifles in the French Army at that time but a few did make a difference. Wonder what the voltigeurs thought about Napoleon's Imperial edict when they were being peppered by the riflemen of the 95th?

 

[palladius]

Except for the sporting area, the French didn't use many rifles militarily. There was, in fact, the 1793 "Versailles"-'carabine d'infanterie' plus another "Model of the Year Twelve"-'carabine d'infanterie', (a chunky, 8 pound rifle with good sights, which fired "forced balls, twenty-eight to the pound"), these were initially designed for officers and sergeants to help overcome the German and some early British rifle armed troops. The latter version was to also include issue to 'fourriers' of 'voltigeur' companies as well but Napoleon quickly ordered rifles out of service. Some officers carried these or sporting rifles in spite of the Imperial command. Captain Bonnet of the 18th Ligne(Line Regiment) and Lieutenant Begos of the 2nd Swiss Regiment both carried double-barreled, flintlock, sporting rifles into combat. Begos is noted for jumping into a situation in Portugal to save one of the stragglers of his company and dropped the guerrilla soldier at 120 paces! Not a lot of rifles in the French Army at that time but a few did make a difference. Wonder what the voltigeurs thought about Napoleon's Imperial edict when they were being peppered by the riflemen of the 95th?

Only the officers and NCOs of the voltigeurs of the legere companies carried rifles and you're right, they were officially withdrawn in 1807 or 1808 but I've wondered myself how many held onto them. Essentially officers armed themselves so there probably was a wide variety.

What did the voltigeurs think? Hard to say but British accounts usually say the French got the upper hand in skirmishing. Also most skirmishing was within 50 to 75 yards, well within the range of the muskets. Despite the fame of the 95th, there really weren't many on the battlefield, certainly not enough to make a difference in any action and they often weren't utilized well anyway.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Agree totally. Napoleon's reason for taking rifles out of the equation was speed of reloading. The French military of the day was sold on the column with a 'cloud' of skirmishers out front. Despite authors like Bernard Cromwell, the British often got over run by the number of voltigeurs they were facing. Many English accounts refer to having their skirmishers being driven in by the sheer number of the French. Waterloo, like other battles Wellington fought, used effective use of terrain so that when the riflemen got driven back, the regimental lines stepped up and let loose with a few murderous volleys to clear them out. It's hard to imagine a two deep line stopping a battalion in "column by divisions" with skirmishers out front, but it happened too many times to doubt. You just pile them up till it's too hard to get over the pile!

 

[palladius]

Yes, muskets could be reloaded much faster than the rifles and it didn't take as long to train a soldier to use a musket.

The old column vs. line debate. :stir: Usually I don't think the French intended to attack in column--columns were for traversing the battlefield. The idea was to get the troops a certain distance from the enemy lines then switch into line, as lines are difficult to maneuver any distance. Unfortunately with the terrain in Spain they were upon the British lines sooner than anticipated and unable to switch in time. They British didn't have to maneuver, they simply waited in their lines.

Also, the French troops in Spain were generally not of the same quality as those of the Grande Armee which marched out of Boulogne but second line troops, so such maneuvers were more difficult for them.

I'm sure there were times when the French commander meant to use the old Revolutionary tactic of massed columns, some favored it, especially against less seasoned troops--like the Spanish--or when commanding them. It wasn't a favored doctrine though.

 

[nkbj]

Just a passing thought but as close as smoothbore armed masses with banging away at each other... did they really just shoot one ball at a time?

 

[palladius]

You mean did they not notice the charge in their weapon and keep loading charge after charge? That happened man times. Or are you asking if they fired double balls? Maybe but I doubt often. When firing paper cartridges, each has one ball in it. Possibly before an action NCOs might have had them put two balls in for the first shot but after that blazing away on the firing line it doesn't seem practical.

 

[palladius]

Except for the sporting area, the French didn't use many rifles militarily. There was, in fact, the 1793 "Versailles"-'carabine d'infanterie' plus another "Model of the Year Twelve"-'carabine d'infanterie', (a chunky, 8 pound rifle with good sights, which fired "forced balls, twenty-eight to the pound"), these were initially designed for officers and sergeants to help overcome the German and some early British rifle armed troops.

Here is an original AN. XII rifle. Looks like a beauty. They seem to have had the angled brass flash pan of the AN. IX modified 1777 muskets and the pistols of the era.

It looks somewhat like the Baker rifle.


the An. XIII rifle