Frizzen refacing

[greysmoke]

I know there have been several posts related to refacing frizzens but I haven't found a reference to a person/place I might send a frizzen to have an expert refresh it. Anybody know of one? I have a Pedersoli Frontier that went thru the frizzen face a lot quicker than I expected- they're expensive to replace and I'm not confident in my ability to fix it myself.

 

[bpd303]

I have never used his service, but he comes highly recommended by others on the board. If I can't fix something he would be the first I would contact. http://flintlockrepair.com/flintlockrepair.html

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you want to reface that is a job you can do yourself. A piece of large hacksaw blade epoxied to the frizzen face will work. For better results the original face might need to be ground down a bit to allow for the thickness of the blade. I'm sure someone will chip in with lengthy discussions about types of steel, hardness, etc. explaining why it won't work. I do know I had one, no special treatment. Glued on, ground to shape and shot. Worked fine.

 

[OldNo7]

I have a Pedersoli Frontier that went thru the frizzen face a lot quicker than I expected...

Sounds to me like your frizzen is too soft...

I just sent a soft Euroarms frizzen to Earl (BP gunsmith in link above) and he did a very nice job at hardening it. And he improved the rollover too, so it has a good "snap" to it now too.

I highly recommend Earl K for his expert service, quick turnaround and reasonable pricing. :thumbsup:

Tight groups.

Old No7

 

[LRB]

The only thing I would say, is that shock, expansion, and contraction of the metals is epoxie's greatest enemy in such an application. Each episode of the metal changing size weakens the bond, if even only a minute amount. Some epoxies are better suited for metals than others. If I had to choose, I would use JB Weld with both surfaces of the metal freshly roughed, but I would only trust it for target use even then. It may last forever, but I would be uncomfortable if hunting with it done that way.

 

[Ken Cormier]

Plus one on Wick' s post.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have used wind up clock spring for half soling frizzens for thirty years. The first one I did is still going strong on a TC Hawken that my brother uses for hunting. You do need to roughen the mating surfaces of the frizzen and clock spring. Clean both surfaces with denatured alcohol to remove all oil & grease and let dry. I used standard two part mix it yourself epoxy and smeared both mating surfaces and then used a c-clamp to hold them together tight for at least 24 hours. Then I slowly ground back the edges of the clock spring to match the frizzen edges. Slowly, as in to not cause heat. Clock spring can be very thin, 1/64 or so. It actually substantially improved the ignition of that old 1977 TC Hawken lock.

Yes expansion and contraction can weaken the bond. However, a frizzen face really doesn't receive all that much heat from firing unless at the target range and in some intense shooting. Normally the frizzen face is up and away from the fire and the frizzen base is exposed to the flame.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

If you need a piece of clock spring send a pm with the size and your address. I may have just what you need.

 

[LRB]

It's not the firing that is a problem. It is weather changes, and going out into the cold with a warm gun, and vise/versa. Of course this should not be done anyway because of condensation issues. I just would not want to lose a fine deer because of epoxy failure, when there are better methods of attaching a face to a frizzen.
Clock springs are excellent for half soling frizzens. They are usually 1095 steel. At least the older ones.

 

[bpd303]

I always solder the half sole, never had one come loose.

 

[LRB]

Me too.

 

[M. De Land]

How thick are these soles generally and how long do they last before needing to be re-soled?
I would be using flat spring stock and assume the sole must be first be shaped, fit and hardened before soldering on. Does the soldering draw the temper?
I have rehardened a frizzen but have not yet re-soled one. Mike D.

 

[LRB]

The last one I did for myself was of 1095 at about 1/64". I shaped it over sized to fit the curve then heated with a torch to bright red/red orange and quenched in brine. No temper. Soldered it to the frizzen by first tinning the frizzen face well, set the half sole on it with plenty of flux, and applied heat from the back side slowly until the solder flowed and bonded. I used Stay Brite silver bearing solder which flows at 430°. That sounds a little high in temp, but for the short time of heat, I only got a slight temper. After testing it on the range, I found it yet too hard and oven tempered at 385° for an hour. That gave me the spark I wanted. For those wanting a harder face, a lower temp solder can be used, such as 60/40 which flows around 370°/375°, and the half sole could be pre-tempered if wished, however, it could not be re-tempered if found too hard, or of course the solder would melt. Locks seem to vary in the amount of frizzen hardness they do best with. My Siler does not do well with a really hard frizzen, but in experimenting with a L&R Queen Anne, I found it needed a very hard frizzen to be reliable. Early locks needing a half sole were most often brass brazed to the frizzen in the forge, and quenched while the frizzen was still red hot, or the half sole was riveted in place then hardened.

 

[rickystl]

I THIRD the motion for Earl Kathan. He sure does great lock work. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Since Clock spring is getting harder to find, I was wondering if a piece of metal from a metal ribbon tape measure would work. Plenty thin. I got a roll of clock spring to last a lifetime. Just wondering about the tape measure.

 

[LRB]

I have seen packing band listed as being 1095. I know they are springy. Try a piece and see how it sparks. Probably have to harden it.

 

[greysmoke]

Thanks for all the good advice. Since my last post I have contacted Pedersoli's guy in the US and he is going to replace the frizzen under warranty. We'll see how long this one lasts. I may have to reface it and if I do I will send it to Earl K.- I talked to him and he seems like a good guy. Any ideas about how many snaps a good frizzen should take before its worn out?

 

[Zonie]

Any ideas about how many snaps a good frizzen should take before its worn out?

Well over 1000.

Except for the flintlocks made in Spain back in the 1970's, the modern made ones frizzen is made out of a thru hardening steel.

Because it is hardened clear thru, you would have to wear a hole thru it before it would need replacing.

 

[Treestalker]

Zonie , do you know of anyone making a replacement frizzen for those old Spanish made Tower pistols? I've got a lock off one I'd like to fix, but refacing the frizzen seems like a drag if the geometry is bad to start with. Maybe a new frizzen would have a better compatability with the ****/flint angle? Maybe better to just convert it to percussion? Just asking, Thanks. Treestalker.

 

[Zonie]

No. I don't know where one of those frizzens can be found.

If I was to guess I'd say call the folks at Deer Creek. They have a lot of the old CVA parts and you might get lucky.

Deer Creek Products
6989 E Michigan Rd
Waldron, IN 46182

(765) 525-6181


As for sparks, even a fairly soft frizzen will spark. Being soft, the flint might dig in and it will certainly gouge out more material than it should.

Before thinking about replacing a frizzen, take a new flat fine tooth file and try filing the edge of the frizzen where the face stops.
If the file barely leaves a mark or only makes a polished look, the frizzen is already hard and it should not need replacing.

If there is something wrong with the shape or geometry, buying another frizzen just like it would be a waste of money and time.