Fun lock from India (eBay)

[Philip Chua]

Another cheap eBay lock to play with. Needs the top jaw screw (1/4" believe it or not). The hammer screw threads off but the shaft from the tumbler is stuck to the hammer (possibly from grinding) what is the best way to knock this loose. I really need to have it off to clean up the lock plate properly. I'm sure this isn;t the first time someone has seen this.

 

[Tumbledown]

Grind down a punch to just a bit smaller than the opening in the hammer. With everything removed from the inside of the plate, place the plate over a block of wood, with a hole to clear the tumbler. Use the punch to drive the tumbler out of the hammer and out of the back of plate. Use light blows so you don't mar the tumbler up.

It may help to put some penetrating oil where the tumbler/hammer meet.

 

[Gtrubicon]

You could also put the screw back in just a couple of turns and hit the screw head, spray some penetrating oil on it and let it set for a while first.

 

[russellshaffer]

Go with the punch into the hole. If it doesn't move with reasonable force, try heating the hammer with a propane torch. Then tap on it some more. Do not get in a hurry. If it doesn't work it's time to think about it and try something else. A bigger hammer isn't the answer here.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I've fixed so many of these locks. Take everything off then lay the plate across the jaws of a sturdy vise so the tumbler can drop away. Put a towel in the vise to catch the tumbler. Then use a punch that fits down into the hole without rubbing against the threads and hit it with a fairly heavy hammer. Don't be afraid to beat the snot out of it. If the tumbler or screw have a lot of corrosion, briefly heat the cock and tumbler with a torch (not much just hot to the touch) and then apply a little penetrating oil. Then go and use the punch. FYI, the part holding the flint is called the flint cock or cock, not hammer. The part it strikes is called the frizzen in modern terms but back in the day was called the hammer, steel, or battery. Get yourself a good spring vise rather than use vise grips. These locks are notorious for the sloppy fit of the tumbler to the lock plate. I usually have to insert a bushing in the plate to eliminate the sloppy fit. Here are 2 examples:

Also, often the round post of the tumbler does not extend far enough through the plate to prevent the cock from being tightened down against the lock plate. In the photo below note the rub marks of the cock on the plate and also the overuse of polishing wheels such that all the screw holes are dished out.

The springs are usually very crudely made and often way too heavy. If you anneal them to work on them, reharden them with a brine quench not oil. You will need the fast cooling of brine to harden them or they will take a set. Temper them at 750 degrees for at least 30 minutes.

dave

 

[Philip Chua]

Go with the punch into the hole. If it doesn't move with reasonable force, try heating the hammer with a propane torch. Then tap on it some more. Do not get in a hurry. If it doesn't work it's time to think about it and try something else. A bigger hammer isn't the answer here.

This seems like the way. Made myself a wood block w cutout and will use general taps. I think it will tap loose - as I was moving it you can see some flex right there at the top where it’s ground. May come fairly easily. I’ll update post later today after messing with it a bit.

Hi,
I've fixed so many of these locks. Take everything off then lay the plate across the jaws of a sturdy vise so the tumbler can drop away. Put a towel in the vise to catch the tumbler. Then use a punch that fits down into the hole without rubbing against the threads and hit it with a fairly heavy hammer. Don't be afraid to beat the snot out of it. If the tumbler or screw have a lot of corrosion, briefly heat the cock and tumbler with a torch (not much just hot to the touch) and then apply a little penetrating oil. Then go and use the punch. FYI, the part holding the flint is called the flint cock or cock, not hammer. The part it strikes is called the frizzen in modern terms but back in the day was called the hammer, steel, or battery. Get yourself a good spring vise rather than use vise grips. These locks are notorious for the sloppy fit of the tumbler to the lock plate. I usually have to insert a bushing in the plate to eliminate the sloppy fit. Here are 2 examples:

Also, often the round post of the tumbler does not extend far enough through the plate to prevent the cock from being tightened down against the lock plate. In the photo below note the rub marks of the cock on the plate and also the overuse of polishing wheels such that all the screw holes are dished out.

The springs are usually very crudely made and often way too heavy. If you anneal them to work on them, reharden them with a brine quench not oil. You will need the fast cooling of brine to harden them or they will take a set. Temper them at 750 degrees for at least 30 minutes.

dave

Thank you for the detailed answer! Ill check the run out on that hole and will update the terminology no matter how much the 14 year old Beavis in me snickers every time I type "cock"

Phil

 

[dave_person]

Hi Phillip,
Here is a thread that should be of great value to you.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/fixing-locks.165922/

dave

 

[Philip Chua]

The punch took only a light tap. It was dirt and corrosion holding it in place. Cleaned it up a little more. The whole face of the lock is uneven so I decided to quit after cleaning it up. Bring it true might cause some issue with the cock/tumbler fitment so it’s now just a lot smoother. Trigger pull is tons better but still heavy so maybe annealing the springs might be an option. Overall it’s been exactly what I wanted which was a rough lock that I could disassemble and learn a bit about. This is my second one. Next up will be a percussion lock. I bought a couple Fowlers at an auction and one is missing the percussion lock (seems like it was a back action lock but I’m unsure) and a trigger guard. The stock will need replaced. That’s gonna be fun! Then you get to see some really terrible carpentry!!!! Anyway more pics. I’m super pleased with the project so far.

 

[Philip Chua]

Some upcoming considerations: the top jaw screw hole is drilled off center. So that when the top jaw screw is screwed in, it interferes with the body of the hammer. This can be seen in the pic above. I haven't quite decided how to tackle that issue just yet. There outward facing portion of the lock plate (face) is not square. It has some low points from the casting and I'll probably at some point flatten it. I am a little concerned that it may affect the relationship of the tumble axle/cock but that hole is acutally machined quite tight so I'm hopeful that it won't require any adjustment. Just working the action some has loosened up the springs a lot. once U get it cleaned up I'm going to inlet it to some scrap wood and pin a trigger plate/trigger to it for testing. I file tested the frizzen and I think I may put it through a hardening/temper cycle. I need to know how to do that anyway. I have ordered a snaphaunce lock from the same seller so I can learn the geometry there too. It's a lot dirtier so I'm excited to work on that clean up project. May soda blast it to get the surface rust off. Anyway, just some musings for the day.
Doc van Phil