fusil de chasse kits

[Tommy Bruce]

I've been reading some of the older threads about french guns and have been getting the itch to build one from a kit when I finish my reading rifle(hopefully this winter). My question is who makes the most historically correct kit? I believe I am refering to the right gun, I'm talking about one that is iron mounted and has the severe drop in the stock. I built one from a kit a few years ago and it was from mold & gun shop. It was their type D which I've since learned is a modern term. I was pleased with the quality of the parts but the lock was banana shaped and probably not quite right. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :thanks:

 

[tg]

I think the closest you will find is from TOW with a 44" barrel and it will need some lock modification and a few other minor changes such as number of screws in buttplate, method of attatching tg, and number of thimble pins somewhere in the archives is a pic of one I finished from TOW parts a few months ago it looks much like the guns in Hamilton or Bouchards books circa 1720-30

 

[Henry]

Excuse me if my question is blunt , but , how important
is it that your gun be really period correct ?
I was at the Carillon re-enactment last week-end
and it was one of the question that was dsicussed
all week-end .

What happens if one has a perfectly PC gun and
has a beard ?

 

[tg]

If your question was directed at me it was very important as I wanted to be as close to the originals as possible, and after studying these guns for a year or so I saw nothing really close was being offered, and a great deal of fancy being put forth as fact and a general lack of understanding of these gun by the public and builders alike, so it became a challenge as well, others may not care if their fusil has a large Siler lock and a plastic stock..and while not common, beards are documentable in the second half of the 18th century, most forums have hashed this over and over with many period references to facial hair of one kind or another.and there is a different from being PC or historicaly correct and being common. striving for the common is fine, but not being common does not make one wrong. I am missing two front teeth that I did not have repaired properly so I guess that is a step in the right direction in spite of the straggely whiskers.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I put together a fusil de chasse with the pied de la vache stock a couple of years ago, Barrel would probably not fit norm for the period, but that is the way I wanted it. I installed a 46 inch octagon to round swamped barrel that throws 20 balls to the pound, piece weighs in at just 7 pounds. Most naturally shouldering gun I have ever owned, points and shoots like a dream. Have only shot bushy tailed tree rats and one buzz tail snake (range was all of ten feet) with it to date, but hope to use it on deer or elk with ball someday.

First thing I found out was with both eyes open, to look over, not down the barrel to sight it, was a bit odd at first, but quickly became second nature.

 

[davidesau]

Tg, I've been reading a lot, and have come to the same conlusion about the TOW fusil. I have a couple of questions for you. I know it comes with a Davis lock, which dosen't look to bad, but the cock doesen't seem to be looking at the pan, which I kind of like. Have you ever read anything about using Chamber's Early Germanic lock, and slightly reshaping the lock plate? Jim also told me he could use a different frizzen spring, and external screw. It would then look a lot like several in Bouchard's book. Especially the 1729 contract. An other concern is the barrel. I read that no French barrel has ever been found with 1" across the flats. What does the Colerain barrel have? Also does it have the small 8 to 16 flat area that the originals seemed to have had? I've also heard they hold and shoot great. Also, what stock wood did you choose? :thanks: Sure would like to see a pic of yours.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I haven't used my reworked J.Chamber's Early Germanic much yet, but so far it throws a tremendous amount of sparks and appears to be of highest quality.

I'm very pleased with the action (and my letoff is under three lbs and with no creap - but that's as much a fuction of the trigger installation as the lock).

I'd recommend the Chambers.

 

[tg]

The Colraine barrels are 1 1/16 I believe, I added the 16 flats for a couple of inches,it is a simple matter of a little draw filing. I am not certain how close you could make the Germanic lock look like a French lock, I have not seen it done, Tom could field that question better than I when he returns, the Davis lock does spark well,

 

[davidesau]

Wow tg! That looks exactly like what I'd want to end up with. The Chamber's lock option was mentioned several years ago by Kit Ravenshear. The pan is not part of the plate, and can be reshaped also. It's plate size is also closer to the French locks, which were slightly larger. Sounds like they function well too. Thanks for the pic Stumpkiller. Tg, did you use plain maple for stock wood, or walnut? Thanks for all the info fellas. :thanks:

 

[tg]

I went with walnut as it would have been the wood used on originals any existing maple french fusils would be restocks
I think as long as you de-Germanize a lock and it ends up looking like one of the original French locks it would pass muster, one need be certain that the original gun used as a guide has the original lock. This is what the Davis lock ended up looking like the lighting is kind of funky to get a clear pic.

 

[Henry]

First thing , please excuse me TG , my comment were not
about you personnally, I mentioned beards as an exemple but it could
have been clothes , food , tents or any other aspect
of the " material culture "

I confess I am one of those PC nazi , I just try to
keep a low profile ... I understand that everybody
is not crazy as I am .

What I mean is : If one is not a re-enactor or a museum curator , what is the importance of having a museum piece ?
If one likes the look of a so called C or D trade gun
or a Tulle with brass furniture or a sling , I see no problem, as long as one knows it is a personnal choice
and not a authentic repro .We do hear about rifles in the
F&I wars over and again , so who is to worry about a
Tulle with the wrong sideplate ?

It is a bit worse when a maker describes his personnal
choice as being authentic , but again , it seems like
common sense that someone ready to pay close to 1000 $
for a gun should make his own research about it ?

On the other hand , if one still is interested
in authenticity
most of the books about F&I war guns are still available
and not very expensive .

By the way ,the lock on the picture is a good job !

 

[tg]

"If one likes the look of a so called C or D trade gun
or a Tulle with brass furniture or a sling , I see no problem, as long as one knows it is a personnal choice
and not a authentic repro .We do hear about rifles in the
F&I wars over and again , so who is to worry about a
Tulle with the wrong sideplate ?"

I agree, but often as Rich pointed out on another thread someone tries to take something that they like and call it PC which does not help others who are interested in what is or isn't, and often folks ask what is or isn't so I think they deserve the best answer we can give them,whether they really need a PC gun or not. and I have seen documented advertisments for rifles for sale in 1756, I would love to see what one looked like, I took no offense at your question but gave the reasons why I opted to go for a closer replica than what is generaly offered, and I think the trend for many is to buy first and research or ask questions later often this is fueled by those who put forth fancy and spell it f.a.c.t. often these are reputable dealers and builders and their statements are many times taken as rock solid bonafide correct.

 

[davidesau]

The lock looks great tg. Did it come with the plate stamped? Also did you do some work on the back of the frizzen? I thought I saw a couple of ridges on the back of the Davis lock in the TOW catalog. How was the lock mortise fit? One more thing, and I'll leave you alone. The patina on the barrel, lock, and such, looks real nice. How did you achieve that finnish? On the PC subject. It seems the older I get, the more I strive to attain it. Thanks again for the help tg. :thumbsup:

 

[Henry]

I guess you had been served the sentence
" the more I learn , the more I know ... how ignorant
I really am " , when you were in school .

Well, there is a lot of truth to it when dealing
with French flintlock of the Nouvelle -France period .

We try to stick with one model , the " fusil de chasse
et de service " as it was the most common model.
Still , there are less than two dozen of such guns in
museums and private collections , out of those most
were either re-stocked or converted to percussion
and in the rest , there are a few fakes . We can find
other informations in archives and archeological research .
But one should be ready to make a little effort to
find the right stuff .

Just on this forum , in another discussion , someone
came with the " give me the right time of day "
kind of question , few month earlier someone else
asked a question and added " and do not tell me to read a book !"

Well , sorry , those guys are just missing a big part
of the fun . I did not study at the university
but when it comes to Tulle guns , I take great pleasure
( and pride ) to be able to discuss with historians
and museum curators . History is not written once and for
all times , and early gunsmithing is one area where
guys like us can make a valuable contribution to research ,
but we have to adopt equal or better ethics than historians
Taking one 's wishes for facts is not the way to go.

So , this is the way I see things , I guess TG has
a similar view , but I agree that it is not the only way
to have fun , if one just want to have a performant flint
lock gun , comfortable to shoot , there is no need
to spend days at the library . Just do not spend hours
telling me stories about French rifles of the F&I period.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I was sort of leaning toward the track kit but we'll see how it goes. I've been to a few events with my type D (regret selling it now) and was never questioned about it's authenticity. I guess it's sort of like all the Pedersoli Besses you see at F & I events. I just figured if I'm going to invest the time and money I'd like to get as close as possible to the right thing. Sort of like going from machine sewn garments to handsewn. This journey into the 18th century is long, expensive, time consuming and the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on. By the way TG nice gun. that's what I got in my mental picture.

 

[tg]

The engraving on the lock was done by a fiend of mine who is a great builder and has steadier hands and more patuience than I, he helped me a lot with this gun, the spurs were removed from the frizzen as was the finial from the frizzen spring and the bottom of the pan was reshaped and the "notch" above the cock mounting screw was rounded to match the curve of the cock also I thinned down the turnscrew and fiddled a little with the serpentine shape of the cock, the patina is the result of polishing everything then coating heavily with naval jelly for two days re-applying a couple(without removing what was already there) of times during that period then rinsing and neutralizing.
the final step was to buff down a bit with fine wool leaving some darker/lighter areas then oiling with gun oil...beeswax/olive oil would probably work as well, the wood was stained with walnut then coated with asphaltum then wooled down to give the dark/light effect then finished with many coats of tru oil lighly sanded twix coats, I usually use turp/linseedoil/spar varn but was out so used the true oil instead this stuff is ok but a little goes a long way I like my homemade stuff better. At any rate the final result is my imprression of a circa 1720-30 gun after 30-40 years of steady use in the woods but not abused and neglected this of course is subject to the old adage to each his own as to speculation of what it might have looked like, I used some old guns from the early 20th century and the 1940's to gauge by as far as color.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Great looking piece, and you did it up right for the honest usage appearance. Too many think dragging behind the pick up a couple miles down a gravel road looks authetic, all they get is a gun that looks like it was dragged down a gravel road a couple of miles.

 

[davidesau]

I thank you sir for all your help. The lock looks great. Would your friend possibly be interested in engraving another? I hope to build this as a winter project. I have always loved the lines of this fusil. The French had a way with such things. So as not to bore anyone else, I'm posting my e'mail add. so we make speak on this further, If you would like. If not, thats o.k. I thank you again Sir. [email protected]