Gathering Info on Smoothbores

[duelist1954]

I’m planning a series of articles on flintlock smoothbores with both shot and ball. I’ll be looking at things like 2Fg vs 3Fg, and historical vs current loading techniques.

I’d like to put together a little database of that will allow me to gauge the state of the art out in the world. So, I’d appreciate it if you’d share your smoothbore load information with me.

In an effort to get as many responses as possible, I’m going to be posting this request in several FB groups and internet boards, so I’d appreciate it if you only answer once. But, if you can’t restrain yourself from posting on several boards, please let me know that you’ve already answered elsewhere, so I don’t enter your info more than once.

Here’s what I’d like to know about your smoothbore loads:

Round ball:
Gauge, ball size, patched (Yes/No), Patch material/thickness Wads (Yes/No) Wad material, Powder granulation, Powder Charge weight, velocity (if known)

Shot:

Gauge, Shot size, shot weight, wad composition, Powder granulation, Powder charge weight, velocity (if known)

Thanks for the help.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Mike, I don't have a flintlock smoothy (yet)...but I'll chime in anyway cause I don't see the type of ignition as relevant...

Lately I've been shooting steel shot mostly....BB size. I shoot a lot of rabbits out of my garden and don't want Lead in my vegetables...Some guys worry about ruining their guns but it hasn't hurt mine yet.

I also like lighter loads, cause I got bad shoulders.....

I also like Leather OP wads ( more than any other kind.)....stiff, patent, vegetable tanned about .20 thick. If I find them back, they are reusable.

Everything else is flexible....

 

[tenngun]

I shoot 20 gage mostly with .595 ball.
Just in the last few mo I have found about 60-65 grains 2@65 or 3 @60 works best out to 50 yards.
I shoo tow, shredded hemp yarn, cedar inner bark, shredded wool blanketing,or dog hair to all work well. I grease it with lard or mink oil and force the ball into a nest of the wadding and ram home.
At 25 yards it will make a big ragged hole with a five shot group. At 50 yards it's about a 3-4 inch group. A patched ball tightens the group at 50 yards but not enough to effect hunting accuracy.
I have never conographed the load but would guess it transonic, I doubt it has much different ballistics then a .58 as recorded in Lyman hand book.
With shot I use the same sort of wadding with about an ounce of shot and a similar wad on top. It drops Rocky,Thumper and Tom to about 25 yards, I have never patterned it per say.

 

[biliff]

Round ball:
Gauge, ball size, patched (Yes/No), Patch material/thickness Wads (Yes/No) Wad material, Powder granulation, Powder Charge weight, velocity (if known)

20 ga, .600 ball, normally patched, cotton .010", no wads, FFFg Goex, 70gr
Note: have been known to wad with rhododendron leaves on trail walks (don't ask), but not my normal practice.

Shot: size, shot weight, wad composition, Powder granulation, Powder charge weight, velocity (if known)

Lots of "it depends on what I'm doing" here.

Size 9's to 6's depending on what I'm doing. Lead shot or non-toxic Hevi-shot.

Weight 7/8 to 1 oz.

Wads- Lead shot will get an over powder card, fiber wad, plastic shot cup and over shot wad. Hevi shot gets the same thing except the shot cup is specific to steel shot. 70 gr. FFFg Goex.

 

[roadgrader]

I shoot an 11 gauge with 70g of 2f circle fly over powder wad 70g measure of 6 shoot and overshoot card Stacey

 

[BrownBear]

...things like 2Fg vs 3Fg....

Make that 1f when using shot in 20, 12 and 10 gauge and you're likely to have much better patterns.

Dunno what effect it would have with round balls, because I mostly shoot those from rifled bores.

 

[Artificer]

Historic Information on British "King's Pattern" Musket Loads or what we call the Brown Bess.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1593755/

I believe it important that though it is often written the British "Issue" Ball size was .69 cal.; that the majority of excavated/unfired balls from 18th century British Camps in America have revealed they actually were .70 and .71 Caliber in diameter more often than .69 cal.

The one thing I did not go into on that post was even prior to the FIW/Seven Years War, British Ordnance was buying special Linen "Cartridge Paper" both to have cartridges made themselves or by Contractors and also issued to Regiments so they could make more cartridges when needed. (The earliest documentation I have was in 1748, though it probably was not the earliest British Ordnance supplied it.)

This was not only important, but critical for use by British Forces all over the world (including India) to ensure the paper was of sufficient quality and would not be too thick when wrapped around the balls cast from issued bullet molds.

Unfortunately, I do not know if any examples of 18th century British Ordnance "Cartridge Paper" has ever been found/identified and/or if original period cartridges have been found/identified/examined to tell us more about that Cartridge Paper.

Gus

 

[BradCayton]

I shoot a .62 flint trade gun.

70 grains of 3F, a lubed 1/8" felt wad, 1 1/4 ounces of #5 shot and an OS card.

75 grains of 3F, a lubed 1/8" felt wad, .595 RB with a .010 denim patch

 

[larryp]

My Chief's Grade trade gun is .62/20 gauge with a 36" barrel.
For round ball I use 75 gr. of 3f, a 1/4 lubed wool felt wad, a bare .610 ball and a thin overshot card.
For shot I use 65 gr. of 3f, the same 1/4" lubed wad, 1 1/4 oz of #5 shot, and the same overshot card.

 

[Cruzatte]

Here’s what I’d like to know about your smoothbore loads:

Round ball:
Gauge, ball size, patched (Yes/No), Patch material/thickness Wads (Yes/No) Wad material, Powder granulation, Powder Charge weight, velocity (if known)

• Gauge: 20
• Ball Size: .610
• Patched: No
• Wad Material: Tow
• Powder Granulation: 2Fg
• Powder Charge Weight: 60 gr.
• Velocity: Unknown

Shot:

Gauge, Shot size, shot weight, wad composition, Powder granulation, Powder charge weight, velocity (if known)

Thanks for the help.

• Gauge: 20
• Shot Size: No. 8
• Shot Weight: 7/8 oz
• Wad Composition: Tow
• Powder Granulation: 2Fg
• Powder Charge Weight: 2¼ dr.
• Velocity: Unknown

Glad to be of assistance.

 

[Stumpkiller]

16 bore (0.662"), 75 gr FFg and Rev. War militia style paper cartridges with a 0.648" round lead ball. 42" swamped barrel Mike Brooks flint fowler.

1-14/ oz shot, 75 gr FFg powder, 1/8" over shot card, 1/2" fiber wad rolled in molten beeswax & .030" cardboard over shot card with the edge nicked to let the air escape. I also use a brown paper shot cup to keep the lead off the bore and improve patterns.

 

[Skychief]

Hey Mike!

Roundball loads:

12 gauge, 70 gr Goex 2f, .024 patch, .690 ball.

20 gauge, 80 gr Goex 2f, .024 patch, .600 ball.

I like straight mutton tallow for lube.

These are loads that I use quite a bit, but, use others as well. I use no wads nor cards.


Shot loads:

Powder and shot weights vary widely depending on what they are to be use for.

Constants include using a hard card over the powder (but never a cushion wad here). Also, I use a dripping wet, HEAVILY lubed (saturated) cushion wad on top of the shot load. Under it, I like to place a thin overshot card. I often use olive oil for wad lube. I think about any lube will work, but, have concluded that the heavier I can get the cushion wad sitting on top of my shot charge, the better my patterns will be.

We've taken to calling it the "Skychief Special" around these parts. :haha: I have found the load to greatly improve the density of my patterns out of the 12 and 20 gauge guns with cylinder barrels. A good bit has been written about it here if you're up for some leisurely reading. Others report improved pattern density with it too.

Thanks for dropping in and good luck with your project. I enjoy your work.

Best regards, Skychief

 

[pargent]

Pedersoli Bess 42" barrel

110 grns 2f
.710 ball
paper cartridge , with lube on ball end


Curly Cheif's gun 20g 36"barrel

80 grns 2f
.6o ball
paper cartridge , with lube on ball end

80grns 2f
1 1/2 + oz number 7 1/2 shot
heavy card over powder fiber wad and thin card over shot

 

[Juice Jaws]

What is the size of the paper you use for the shot cup? Thanks

 

[Maven]

Mike, I only use patched RB's in my smoothbore. Here's the information you requested:

Gauge: 20

Ball dia.: .598" - .599" (Lee Precision and Tanner moulds) and .600" (Lyman mould)

Patched: Yes

Patch material & thickness: Pillow ticking; .014" and .018"

Wad: Yes

Wad material: lubed cardboard; lubed felt (Duro Felt)

Powder granulation: FFg predominantly (Diamondback)

Powder charge: 80gr. FFg; 70gr. FFFg


Btw, I tried the tow wads with 110gr. and 100gr. charges and .598" - .599" RB's which you wrote about, but got odd results. I.e., there was no difference between the 100- and 110r. [FFg] charges, but my 50 yd. 3 shot groups, though tight, were 8" - 9" to the right of center.

 

[hanshi]

I use 60-65 grains of 3F, sometimes 70 grains of 2F, card wad, lubed felt or cushion wad, .606" WW ball and a card wad on top. The cushion wad/ball/os card wad are seated together as one. This "bare ball" load will put a 3 shot group under 3" at 50 yards and 5 shots on a pie plate.

I seldom shoot shot and have no favorite load. Thinking of trying the Skychief special.

 

[Brokennock]

Both my flintlock smoothies are 20 gauge.

Ball loads;
Center Mark Tule FdC with .620 bore = .600 ball with .010 patch lubed with olive oil/bee's wax mix, over 75 grains 3f real black powder.

TVM Early Virginia smooth rifle with .615 bore = .610 ball sandwiched between 2 thin over shot cards a lubed 1/4" thick felt wad, ball, 2 thin overshot cards, all sitting on top of 80 grains 3f real black powder.

I did not try any other loads with the Centermark as the previous owner said this was the best round ball load he got out of it, and he being a far more experienced smoothie shooter than I, and it grouped well to the point of aim he said it would.
I could not get a really good patched round ball load worked out with the TVM smooth rifle. The best was still no where near as good as he patchless load.

Shot loads vary depending on game and gun. Generally I use a muzzle formed paper shot cup like Stumpkiller for small game and a premade shot "cup/tube" for turkey. Shot load/powder charge varies depending on game and conditions, but always more shot than powder.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What is the size of the paper you use for the shot cup? Thanks

My bore is 0.662" (16 gauge). I cut the brown paper into 1-1/8" x 2-3/4" strips. I whittled down a dowel so that it pushes the paper in and forms the cup tight to the barrel walls with a 1/8" overlap in the sides.

 

[Nessmuck56]

Nice thread...still working on my loads

 

[Dave Marsh]

I shoot a 20 gauge jug choked NE Fowler. I don't shoot roundballs with it. My shot load is 80 grains FFG, 1 overpowder card then a 1/8" lubed felt wad. I fill a 100 grain powder measure with mixed 4's and 6's with another card on top. :thumbsup:

Dave