German silver on an early flintlock?

[Snooterpup]

I've seen conflicting information on german silver. Some european early guns were reported to have somegerman silver ornamentation while some sources state german silver manufacturing didn't exist prior to 1832.

Excerpt from Wikipedia:
In Europe, consequently, it was at first called paktong, which is about the way baitong is pronounced in the Cantonese dialect.[12] The earliest European mention of paktong occurs in the year 1597. From then until the end of the eighteenth century there are references to it as having been exported from Canton to Europe.[12] German imitations of paktong, however, began to appear from about 1750 onward.[12] In 1770 the Suhl (Germany) metalworks were able to produce a similar alloy.[13] In 1823 a German competition was held to perfect the production process: the goal was to develop an alloy that possessed the closest visual similarity to silver. The brothers Henniger in Berlin and Ernst August Geitner in Schneeberg independently achieved this goal. The manufacturer Berndorf named the trademark brand Alpacca, which became widely known in northern Europe for nickel silver. In 1830 the German process of manufacture was introduced into England, while exports of paktong from China gradually stopped. In 1832, a form of German silver was also developed in Birmingham, England.[14]
In the forum's vast storehouse of knowledge does anyone know if German silver was used on any colonial rifles of smoothbores prior to 1785?
Thank you!

 

[Dphar1950]

While there was a metal know as "Paktong" from China in the 18th c you of finding it on an American gun of the 18th c are nil. "German Silver" was an attempt to to recreate Paktong as a cheap metal for "silver" coinage. Order sterling sheet or ovals etc or fine silver from Rio Grand or pound out or have rolled out (jewelers usually have a roller ) fine silver coins for white metal inlays and such. German sliver does not look right.

 

[Stophel]

Packtong was incredibly rare and incredibly expensive. More so than silver, as I understand it. I know of only ONE 18th century German gun that is supposedly mounted in packtong. That's it.

While so many people like to say "well, we just don't know for sure" about so many things, I'm not one of those people, and I will come right out and say the answer to this question is a flat out, resounding NO. Not a chance. Zero.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
This is a very easy question to answer. There is no, I repeat no, evidence of German silver used on early American rifles. During the 17th and 18th centuries there was a mysterious alloy discovered in China called packtong. It was thought to be a silver that never tarnished and became very desirable and expensive. It was much more expensive than silver and almost as valuable as gold. Below are photos of an English fowler with packtong mounts:

In the last photo, do you see the slight yellowish tint to the trigger guard? That is a give away. At the very end of the 18th century or beginning of the 19th century, German metallurgists discovered packtong to be a simple alloy of nickle and copper with no silver content at all. They learned to synthesize it cheaply and it became German silver. Either known as packtong or German silver, it was not used on American rifles until the 19th century.

dave

 

[tenngun]

So many guns I’ve seen that were silver mounted what looked real silver. This is nineteenth century. Was German silver used much on silver mounted guns?

 

[Dphar1950]

So many guns I’ve seen that were silver mounted what looked real silver. This is nineteenth century. Was German silver used much on silver mounted guns?

On some, especially low end fancy guns. But by the time GS was really available many rifles just had inlays scattered on them as if they had shot them at the gun with a shotgun. I don't use the stuff. Its essentially white brass except its harder to work.

 

[Snooterpup]

Thanks to everyone! I may be able to do coin silver on the thumb piece. That will solve that problem but the german silver federal eagle inlay on the check piece has got to go. Any thoughts on a bone inlay with scrimshaw as being more fitting on an early Lancaster?

 

[Stophel]

Well... first, you're not gonna see a "federal eagle" on a colonial gun before 1785 anyway.

Honestly, the best way to find out things like this is not to ask "did they do this?", but to study the original guns and see for yourself what they did and didn't do.

 

[Snooterpup]

Yes, the german silver federal eagle is history, I know it didn't belong. I inherited the rifle and am trying to make the best choices to repair the inleted area left after removing it. Does anyone know if an appropiate "filler" for the hole left when the eagle flew away might be a bone inlay with scrimshaw hunter's star. The oval left after the eagle departed is a bit too large for a silver hunter's star. Studying historical examples is a great idea but I thought with the vast knfowledge base in this forum someone may have a helpful answer to this question.

 

[Dphar1950]

How big is the eagle? I would order some sheet Sterline and make a silver eagle to fit the hole.

 

[Dphar1950]

Sterling. Did not proof read

 

[Grenadier1758]

How about a Stirling Silver oval with an engraved initial?

 

[Snooterpup]

Now that's a good idea now to find some sheet sterling. Thanks!

 

[Kansas Jake]

The local pawn shop here often has well worn old silver dollars for sale in the $20 range. I don’t know if one would pound down to fill the spot or not.

 

[Col. Batguano]

.999 Fine silver coins are about the same price, (but no numismatic upcharge for US coinage) as would be sterling silver sheet from Rio Grande. I would opt for the sheet because it is already rolled to a precise thickness, and it's "one less thing" to have to do. How precise are you with a hammer and anvil in pounding down a coin to get the proper thickness anyway? As you are pounding, the silver will need annealing along the way too. I also understand the allure of "doing it yourself" by making it from other materials.

 

[Snooterpup]

The sheet silver sounds like the ticket. Thank you for the great lead on Rio Grande. As too how good am I with a hammer? Great question. The answer is easily sheet silver.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Just as an FYI, .999 silver really won't ever tarnish. It will want to stay that bright white color. Sterling (.93 fine) and coin silver (.90 fine) will tarnish to that gray color we're accustomed to seeing. In fact, scale model makers often use very thin (and tarnished) sterling sheet to simulate steel fittings on their models. It's the alloys in the mixture (the copper mostly) that cause the bulk of the discoloration.