Getting my start and...

[rebuse]

Hi all, I'm getting my start by buying old T/C Renegades and Hawkins, Mountain Rifles and so on”¦that have been neglected, smacked around and beat up. I've learned a lot about different ways of finishing stocks, browning/bluing barrels and parts, some lock repairs and so on. I currently don't have the place to really do major work (living in an apartment.) I’d love to build a kit rifle, but don’t want to start on a completely pre-fabricated kit. I do have some fears about barrel staking and I don’t have the equipment to do metalwork, with exception of drilling and tapping a flash hole. What would be the best kits to start with? I’ve been looking at the Track of the Wolf kits, but not knowing how much I can handle is the hard part. Thank you for your time.

Preacher
:bow:

 

[bioprof]

Preacher,

I started out on a TOTW parts set, a Vincent Ohio rifle, and built it on the kitchen table of the house that I was renting. I did this without even building a prefabricated "in-the-white" kit beforehand. I bought a drill press which is almost a necessity, but didn't need a whole lot of power tools. There were lots and lots of taps, files, and drill bits that I had to buy, but that just goes with the territory. With your experience, I wouldn't hesitate in taking the plunge. You have to start sometime. Just go slow, ask lots and lots of questions, and don't be in a hurry to finish. There were lots of times that I had to think about things for a few days before I got the nerve to take the plunge and perform a task like drilling the hole for the drum. This board is a wealth of resources, and with a search of past posts, you can find information on almost any procedure. Have fun! :hatsoff:

 

[rebuse]

So, if I’m reading you right”¦I should get a kit, take my time (approximately a year or so to complete it) and ask plenty of questions as I’m working on it. This is the kit I’m thinking of working on to start with:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...7&partNum=KIT-EARLY-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-16-FLINT[/url]

I hope this link works. If not, it’s a full stock Hawkins rifle kit, and seems easier then others. I would probably have the breech plug installed, have the lug staples installed, and have them mill the dovetail & install the sights. Hmmmm”¦I’m not leaving a lot to do. Well, If ya’ll have any suggestions I’d appreciate it. Thanks.

Preacher

 

[Zonie]

"...Hmmmm”¦I’m not leaving a lot to do. Well, If ya’ll have any suggestions I’d appreciate it. Thanks."

You got to love a guy with a sense of humor! :rotf: :rotf:

Don't worry about what loads to use yet.
I'm betting it takes you at least a week to get her together. :rotf:

 

[bioprof]

So, if I’m reading you right”¦I should get a kit, take my time (approximately a year or so to complete it) and ask plenty of questions as I’m working on it. This is the kit I’m thinking of working on to start with:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...7&partNum=KIT-EARLY-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-16-FLINT[/url]



I hope this link works. If not, it’s a full stock Hawkins rifle kit, and seems easier then others. I would probably have the breech plug installed, have the lug staples installed, and have them mill the dovetail & install the sights. Hmmmm”¦I’m not leaving a lot to do. Well, If ya’ll have any suggestions I’d appreciate it. Thanks.
Preacher

I wouldn't start with a Hawkens rifle. TOW doesn't recommend it as a first project. I am just in the process of finishing one as a second project, and it was much more difficult than their Vincent rifle. The patented breech required a lot of filing to get it flush with the tang plate and I ran into a problem with the hammer not having a long enough reach. A longrifle is probably a lot easier, because you don't have to worry about drilling holes in the barrel for the underrib and you don't need to worry about the barrel keys lining up with the staples.

There are others on this board that could probably give better advice on what rifle to start with.

 

[rebuse]

Okay...I guess I need to rephrase what I said. Would this be a good way to start, considering, I have NEVER built a rifle from the floor up? I'm sorry, I'm not a Engineering Designer who was born building rifles. I was just asking for advice from those who have it to offer... :v

In all due respect,

Preacher

 

[rebuse]

Hmmm...a Vincent rifle? I guess I'll need to check that out. I see what you mean, about a hook breech. Thanks for the advice, I probably woulf of got myself in a bad spot with that. Again, thanks for the help.

Preacher :hatsoff:

 

[CrackStock]

Tools needed:

drill (drill press prefered) and a good set of bits

cabinet scrapers, sandpaper and as many odd files as you can find -- one triangular shaped one must have the teeth ground to a flat and smoothe surface -- this is know as a safed surface for making dove tails. You may move up to a milling machine and bit someday, but that day is likely off in the future.

a good set of screwdrivers -- this is not a place to be stingy

hacksaw and fine teethed blades

micrometer

a good set of woodcarving chisels (this collection will grow rapindly)

a good vise which has the jaws padded with leather or an old car inner tube cut to fit

Dremel can make some jobs easier or can mess things up rapidly

a band saw is nice for cutting a stock for the butt plate I have always borrowed these as I don't do that many. I did one by hand with a drill, hand saw and rasps -- never again.

center punch

I now use a belt sander for a lot of tasks that I once did by hand -- works well once strapped onto the workbench.

Good luck.

CS

 

[CrackStock]

I also have a Vincent project. I have not done the poured nose cap or silver solder/hidden rivet mounting of the under rib and thimbles yet. Both of those have caused a stall in the project. The early Virginia is getting all on my attention because of it.

CS

 

[Trina]

I’m not leaving a lot to do.

:haha: :haha: :haha:


There is still plenty to do. One or two more suggestions, dont work on it when your tired, mad or stressed..take your time...ask lots of questions... read a few books on the subject... did someone mention take your time :winking: Its a very rewarding project to take on...

 

[rebuse]

:hmm: Thanks all for your help, I'v started looking at diffrent kits, and still not sure which to start with. I emailed Track of the Wolf, to get their opinion. Again thanks for your help.

Preacher

 

[Erzulis boat]

If you follow the post "Cherry Build" I will be installing an under-rib with thimbles etc.
I am going to post photos.
The next chronicled step will be the installation of a "Patent breech", barrel shortening/crowning, dovetails, and under-rib install.
:v

 

[aragorn]

I'm building a Jim Chambers York rifle as my first ever build, and am loving it. It's basically the same deal as a TOTW kit (as they all say, it's not a kit, it's a components set!). The main tools you need are lots of patience and time, mainly for inletting. A huge help to me has been the video offered by Chambers (by James Turpin) and three of the basic handbooks - Recreating the American Longrifle by Buchele et al., The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Dixon and The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Alexander. All of these are available from TOTW I believe, and would be useful even if you're building another type of rifle (and all of these are for building a rifle from scratch, so don't be put off if you get one of these books first and think you have an impossible job ahead of you - if you get a Chambers or TOTW kit you're three quarters of the way there).

 

[Zonie]

I might suggest that rather than buying a micrometer, you consider buying a 6 inch dial or digital caliper.

This will allow you to measure depths, inside dimensions and outside dimensions.
Micrometers are designed to measure either inside dimensions or outside dimensions but not both with one tool.
Calipers don't cost a lot and are very useful when laying out locations for installing the trigger guard, wedges etc. Just about anything smaller than 6 inches is possible.

I find it very useful to use to varify the size of drill bits too.
You will find that threaded holes require special size drill bits and they are only a few thousandths of an inch different than other drills you may have. The caliper can varify the right size in an instant.

I picked up a digital caliper for about $20 and so far my only complaint is that the battary can (and did) go dead. A dial caliper won't have this problem.
Do not bother with the old fashioned caliper with the vernier scale (little tiny lines scribed onto it to tell you what the reading is. Unless you have been trained on how to read these, it will cause nothing but confusion).

 

[Hornless]

I'm new to the Muzzleloading Forum and was just learning my way around. The reason I'm responding to your entry is because I'm building the TOW full stock Hawken as we speak. I have built two other TOW guns and found them to be of good quality. I am a lefty and have always carved my stocks from blanks so I can't speak to their precarved stocks. I do agree with the other guy that replied in that a halfstock is technically more difficult than a full stock.
I'm not sure of your experience level but suggest you might consider a Lyman GPR kit to cut your teeth on. They are realitively easy and don't require a lot of tooling and are good shooters when you are finished.
I wish you all the luck on whatever you decide.

 

Hornless, welcome aboard. TOTW has fine stuff and you won't go wrong with them. On another sight they have been nicknamed Track of the Backorder. I myselfe have only had a few backorders from them, and have goten them within two weeks. I split up my purchases from between them, MBS, and Chambers. All top of the line. That my two cents Bill

 

[Zonie]

"I split up my purchases from between them, MBS, and Chambers"

For those who don't know, MBS is Muzzleloader Builders Supply in Ozone Arkansas

Another excellent parts supply company.

Several years ago Suzie bought all of Don Eads "Muzzleloader Builders Supply and moved it and all of Don's tooling to Ozone.

For years Don made inlays and patchboxes and I used his parts on all of my guns. Dons was one of the major suppliers of patchboxes to many of the other suppliers.

When Suzie bought him out I had some doubts but on my first order she supplied everything I wanted and had some good advice as well.
When I had some questions about the availability of some parts that were not listed in her catalog she knew exactly what I wanted and wasted no time in getting it to me.
Sence she bought the company, she has enlarged the product line and made her company even better than the old one.

Good people to work with and there isn't much backorder because they make many of the parts themselves.

They are in our Links Forum, or you might use this link: MUZZLELOADER BUILDERS SUPPLY

 

[rebuse]

I already have two half stock rifles. I’d build a Lyman GPR kit, but I’d be pushing redundancy. I want a long full stock rifle. Which, my wife told me to buy, however it’s not a part set”¦it’s already been built. We're getting it from TOTW. The rifle was built by Larry E. Williams. It's a .45 cal. 42" barrel w/1:60 Twist. I'm normaly a double set trigger kind'a guy, but they assured me that it's only 4 lbs of trigger pull and very crisp...we'll see when it comes in. I'm sure I'll be happy with it.
[url] http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/rebuse/LehighValleyLongrifle1.jpg[/url]
[url] http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/rebuse/LehighValleyLongrifle2.jpg[/url]
[url] http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/rebuse/LehighValleyLongrifle6.jpg[/url]
[url] http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/rebuse/LehighValleyLongrifle7.jpg[/url]

I guess, she didn't like the idea of me coming home from work and spending all my time working on a rifle. I can't be mad at her for not wanting me working on one, because it is a beautiful rifle. :g Plus, I love her (my wife) to much. I thought I'd specify "my wife" so you'd know I was NOT talking about the rifle. :haha:

Preacher