GPR Barrel Weight

[Pete Gaimari]

I talked about this in the trigger thread, but I didn't want to step on that thread anymore.

From sight and trigger problems I had to send the GPR back. I never got to fire it.

I was a bit shocked at how heavy the barrel felt when I shouldered it. I know i'll get used to it. This is the first time i've had to shoot a rifle left handed after losing the sight in my right eye. It felt pretty awkward. I just need to shoulder it a few thousand times.

My question is will I gain much by going to a .54 instead of the .50 I have/had? I'm also considering the Deerstalker, but i'm not sure that comes in left handed.

I'm going to use the rifle for target competition, and some coyote hunting.

Which model would be best for me?

 

[BrownBear]

For me there's quite a difference between the 54 and 50, which manifests itself for better balance in my book. I'm not sure how much lighter it actually is, bit I sure like the way the 54 handles better than the 50.

And yeah, the Deerstalker comes in left handed. My wife has a right handed percussion in 54 cal, and I bet it weighs close to 2 pounds less than the GPR 50. She greatly prefers it to any other ML in our rack. Some folks might find the balance too far back for range shooting, but I'm here to tell you that it is very quick handling for hunting. Still plenty of weight for steadiness in offhand shooting, but in our very fast brush shooting, it mounts and swings more like a shotgun than a true rifle.

The GPR 54 is definitely steadier than a Deerstalker 54 for offhand shooting due to more weight out front, but nowhere near as quick when it counts. I wouldn't consider the Deerstalker for competitive shooting, but would be proud to carry it hunting. If my wife would let me!!!! :rotf:

Here is the page listing the various Deerstalkers in 54 including lefties at Midsouth. They've got them in 50, too. Good prices.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Ok, it seems the GPR in .54 might be the best. I'm more interested in target shooting. The coyote hunting will be sitting and waiting as I call them. So, it doesn't need to be quick handling.

I like the idea the GPR looks like a Hawken. Where i'm going to shoot is pretty traditional bunch.

I'm that way myself. I fly fish with a bamboo fly rod and silk lines. I like the old stuff.

I just need to get used to the weight of the GPR and build up the muscles on my left side.

I notice when I watch long rifle muzzleloaders being shot they have the forend hand way back by the lock. that's a lot of barrel hanging out there. Is that what I should do?

Thanks.

 

[MikeChapin]

The .54 will be a little less front heavy than the .50 simply because there is a bigger hole in the same sized barrel and there is less metal. All Hawken type rifles feel nose heavy when people first shoulder them but once you get used to them you will find the hang well for offhand shooting. My best target rifle is an old Uberti Santa Fe Hawken in .53 with a 1" barrel 32" long. It comes in a 9.5 lbs but is a good solid offhand rifle.

You can get away from the nose heavy feel if you get a custom Hawken made to the old specs. These generally have barrel 1 1/8" at the breech, tapering to an 1" at the muzzle. It is a heavier rifle but balances better than the straight barrels. The price on these run around $2,500+ as opposed to the $500 for the GPR.

 

[gearheart]

They hold short because their elbow is jammed against their ribs. That way the hold is steady and not dependent on arm strength. Aim is adjusted by body stance. If you shoot kneeling, sitting, or off a rest you can hold longer because you steady your elbow on your knee or on the bench.

 

[cowpoke1955]

My first muzzle loader was a .54 GPR percussion I bought over 30 years ago. I used it in several matches with great results. I agree that that weight really helps in offhand shooting. They are very accurate to 100 yards. It's taking a well deserved rest on the wall, since my wife bought me a .54 GPR flint kit three years ago :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

In my limited experience, DON'T Expect coyotes to come to your call from the direction YOU THINK they will come in. Sometimes you are going to need a gun that swings quickly, to get any shot at all.

As to stance, what you describe is a target shooting stance used by Off-hand shooters. Its fine for that kind of deliberate shooting.

However, when hunting, you can use a variety of positions, including a "standing rest" position, where you use a tree, or a walking stick to help you support and steady the rifle for a more accurate shot. In those cases, your fore-hand will almost certainly be positioned further out on the stock. A walking stick( or tree) can also help you steady your aim using both sitting and kneeling positions. Its not needed at all if you are shooting prone.

Hand position is also important when shooting at running game. The further out your hand is on the stock, the more stable your sights will be, and the easier it is to move the barrel sideways, while controlling the speed of movement of your barrel. :hmm: :thumbsup:

Fluid, steady motion is needed to maintain your lead- whether shooting a shotgun or rifle-- at moving game. :hmm:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

In the 70's I made a good living shooting trap. The money shoots were in Vegas, Reno, and Phoenix. It was a fun time in my life.

Then the sight in my right eye started to go. My sight picture started to jump back and forth between my eyes. I was desperate to keep shooting and tried to shoot left handed. I'm so dominant right handed that I couldn't do it. I had to get a job.

I mention that so you'll understand that any kind of left handed shooting will have to be slow, and i'm not sure if that will help.

That's why i've been shooting C&B pistols for the last few years. I can use my right hand and just move the sights over to my left eye.

Maybe I should just stay with pistols. :hmm:

I was thinking of a flintlock pistol.

I'm a little confused at this point. I love competition, but I want to be competitive too. At least as best as I can at my age.

 

[BrownBear]

You can get away from the nose heavy feel if you get a custom Hawken made to the old specs. These generally have barrel 1 1/8" at the breech, tapering to an 1" at the muzzle. It is a heavier rifle but balances better than the straight barrels. The price on these run around $2,500+ as opposed to the $500 for the GPR.

Good point. I've got two 58 cal rifles with tapered barrels, a GRRW Hawken (1 1/8" x 1" and 36" long), and a TC Hawken ( 1 1/8" x 15/16" and 26" long) and a couple of TC Big Boars 58 with untapered 1" barrels in 58 cal. The GRRW tips the scale right at 12 pounds, and all three TC's are more like 8.5, though I haven't weighed them. They're in a league with the Lyman GPR in any case.

The GRRW Hawken in a beast to carry, and noticeably muzzle heavy. Jim dandy target rifle, and remarkable for shots on still targets in the field, if you can lug it there.

The Big Boars are a lot friendlier to carry, and about as muzzleheavy as my 54 GPR. They wouldn't be my first pick for matches due to fairly coarse single triggers and no hooked butts, however.

The custom TC with the fast taper and barrel 2" shorter than the Big Boars has virtually zero "nose weight," in spite of nearly identical weight as the Big Boars. It's not one I'd use for match shooting even with its double triggers and hooked butt. Dang, is it ever fast for quick shooting in our brush piles.

Enuff rambling. The point being that barrel length, weight and taper dramatically affect how a rifle handles, whether on the range or on a hunt. You're on the right track in the questions you're asking. Best would be for you to handle a bunch of different rifles and decide which works best for your needs.

Oh, and one last point. I'd sure plan to replace the original Lyman trigger with an R.E. Davis Deerslayer trigger. It's virtually a drop-in for the Lyman GPR, and the best $40 you can spend on the rifle, whether for the range or hunts.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Let me go in another direction.

What about me getting a Lyman Deerstalker? I can look at a picture of the stock and tell it will be comfortable for me. The short barrel should also be comfortable. I picked up a T/C Renegade once and loved how it felt.

For me I think it would be a better hunting gun, and maybe I could use it for more than coyote.

My question is would it also be good for target shooting?
Is it replicating a real gun, or just something Investarms made up?

Could I shoot it in traditional shoots?

.50 or .54?

 

[BrownBear]

In addition to my wife's Deerstalker, we also have Renegades and New Englanders. She prefers the balance of the Deerstalker, and in my hands too, it shoots better. I know of no example of anything like it in history, but I'm wrong too often to count.

It's a terrific hunting gun. As for balance for target shooting? I'd say you want more barrel weight, especially for long strings of shots when fatigue becomes an issue. The Lyman Trade Rifle strikes me as a better compromise for both hunting and semi-historic appearance, as well as balance for targets. As far as I know it's not available as a lefty, but that's not been a problem for me. I'm as lefty as can be, but it shoots well with no hassles.

 

[mjones1579]

Check out Impact Guns too. Lots of Lymans and the best prices I've seen.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I couldn't bring myself to get the Deerstalker. I'm too traditional for that.

So, I got another GPR. I'll get used to it, and then i'll have what I want. They didn't have a .54, so I got another .50
I got all my stuff today. Bag, horn etc. I should get the new gun this week sometime. I made them check to see if the trigger and sight were ok on this one.

I'll get the Davis trigger on my next SS check. I wish he took Paypal.

I'm going fishing for now.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm going fishing for now.

It's that time of year, isn't it!

 

[DarenN]

I'm going fishing for now.

It's that time of year, isn't it!

we're having a record return of Sockeye Salmon this year! Wooo-Hooo!! :grin:

 

[BrownBear]

Excellent! Gotta love that sweet sockeye, and the year's not complete till you have your stores put by.

Our freezer is already stocked with sockeye, king, chum and pink salmon, and the coho are just arriving. Then there are the shelves of halibut, scallops, prawns, dungeness crab, king crab, snow crab, ling cod, rockfish, sole, flounder, cod, pollack and herring.

Yeah, living right on the ocean and owning a boat leads to lots of fish in the belly! :thumbsup:

 

[DarenN]

Man o Man! could we through this topic off target in a hell of a hurry. :surrender:
the only problem i have is trying to decide what species to target. on kayak trips i'll drop a crab trap and jig for rockfish. dig some clams or pick oysters and mussels. i always eat well on my west coat trips.
the pacific coast is a great place to eat.

when i'm up at my cabin, in the interior of British Columbia, i can hunt rabbits and squirrels (open season), and fish for trout and whitefish. i never go hungry.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

If we aren't going to talk about what gun I should get.

Fishing is fine.

Except i'm talking about fly fishing. :blah:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

NUTS! I just checked my e-mail and I have one from Buffalo Arms.
It seems they made a mistake about the gun they were going to send me to replace the GPR they sent me. What they have is the GPR Hunter. It's all they have in a left hand model.

That has a 1-32 twist. That should be for conicals. I don't think that will work for patched balls. That's what I want to shoot.

I don't know what to do now. I've never had so many problems in buying a gun.

 

[BrownBear]

Except i'm talking about fly fishing. :blah:

So am I!!! We get all those species except the shellfish on flies. Halibut on 14-weights with Rio Series 8 Outbounds or Leviathins, smaller rods as we go down the size scale.

Heck, we both better move to a fly fishing forum somewhere before this goes any further off topic.

If it was legal to shoot fish with muzzleloaders up here, maybe I could wrap it back around to the original topic. How's this: Is a 54 caliber GPR better than a 50 cal GPR for shooting airborne salmon, or should I go on using a smoothbore and shot? :rotf: