GPR problems

[Moloch]

Today I've got a Lyman GPR .54 perc. as birthday present for my 20th, needles to say that I was totally happy......till I tried to install the barrel.
The Barrel keys did fit only one side of the barrel key notches on the stock, on the other side they were a lot higher than the notches and I couldnt install the barrel at all. I tried it with a screw clamp to really push the barrel into the stock but the barrel keys dont want to go through both notches. Trying it vica-versa didnt help at all. Is that a well known problem with the GPR?

The shop cannot replace it as they run out of .54 GPR's and they will be available march next year. Then I threw it to a gunsmith and he will ''take a look at it'' in the next 15 to 20 days. I dont know if he even knew what I was talking about and he probably screws up the gun.

Totally ruined my birthday.

 

[mckutzy]

does it have a ramrod retention spring? i know on my traditions hawken, if the spring isnt in the right position or flipped over it causes a binding and is difficult to put it back together.

i dont think it is a total ruined birthday... happy birthday. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I'm not sure I can completely picture the problem, so how's this for some background, and maybe a little help.

The keys are supposed to go in from the right side as you look down the barrel like you were going to fire it. And the two keys are very slightly different and not interchangeable. The back one is a wee bit longer.

And finally, be really careful that the hooked breech on the barrel is mated cleanly to the tang. It has to line up perfectly, and if they aren't lined up the barrel doesn't seat quite all the way down. And forcing it down can split the stock!!

The worst I've seen was my wife's Deerstalker. That thing had to be really carefully lined up, but when it was it dropped right into place. Now after 6 months of use, it drops in easy, but still hangs up once in a while if you aren't paying attention.

I'm betting that you're not getting the hook all the way into the breech, whether due to a tight fit or something small getting in the way. Check it over for burs, and maybe a little bit of proud wood inside the tang inlet where the hook fits. But more than likely, if you seat the barrel down as far as it easily goes, then push back on the barrel toward the breech, it will continue on down into the barrel channel virtually on its own.

 

[bucktales]

What Brown Bear said.
Not only are the keys slightly different in length, once they fit, remember there will be an up and down side, at least on mine. I put a mark on mine to help me remember.
Don't force them in. Those little screws on the other side of the plate aren't holding much.
You might have to give the keys a slight tweek with a few taps from an adjusting hammer.

Oh yea,
Make sure you clean out all the packing goop from inside the barrel too.
Happy Birthday!

 

[jtmattison]

First off, Happy Birthday!

Second, sit back and take a deep breath. Read the manual that came with your rifle. If it doesn't have one you can get it electronically from the Lyman web site or I can email it to you. The manual has detailed instructions on how to fit the barrel keys in the event they don't want to cooperate.

Now go get your rifle from the gunsmith. Get yourself a very small flat file that will fit into the escutcheon hole and carefully fit those keys.

Let us know if we can help.

HD

 

[cowpoke1955]

Happy Birthday! Everyone has given you some good advise. I have two .54 GPRs and know what you are going through. I had to give the keys a little tap with a hammer to give them a slight bend to fit. Just go slow and it will all come together. When it does, you'll have a great rifle :thumbsup: .

 

[Moloch]

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions!

I knew that the keys may be tight fitting but the offset on the other site was at least .03'', thats just too much IMO.
Changing them didnt help at all, but I did not know that the keys are different. As I looked through the barrel key notches I could see that the barrel underlugs or however you want to call them (the metal pieces where they key goes thorugh on the barrel) where WAY up. So they keys would of course go high on the other side. First I thought its some kind of pressure problem so with the clamp I tried to force the barrel into the stock with a bit more power; but the barrel lugs where still too high placed to get a key through both sides. I tried it with a hammer and some drops of oil but any more force with the hammer would knock out they key plate on the opposite with its little wood screws.

Maybe the key holes in the stock are not lined up perfectly, that was my first thought.

But I agree, maybe I was a little bit too fast with the gunsmith, I'll try to get it back tomorrow. Sometimes I am a bit too emotional if something doesnt work like it should. :hmm: :shocked2:

A friend had a Hawken styled rifle from Ardesa-Spain with one key, it was an easy task to get the barrel key into its position. Just hook the barrel in, get the key fitting with two fingers and a hammer tap and thats it. The rifles still holding together nicely.

does it have a ramrod retention spring? i know on my traditions hawken, if the spring isnt in the right position or flipped over it causes a binding and is difficult to put it back together.

Hmm, I didnt look at THAT, but I think the screw clamp would have compressed/bent any spring blocking the barrel to get into its final position. But it wasnt difficult, it was impossible.

The manual has detailed instructions on how to fit the barrel keys in the event they don't want to cooperate.

Mine didnt come with a manual, and I did not expect one to come, but I'll better take a look at it at the lyman site.:hmm:

*edit* By the way, I am sorry If I have placed the thread into the wrong section, but the Lyman GPR rifles are available as both flinter and percussion, the barrel problem could exist on both rifles. So I thought the ''percussion''-forum would be wrong.

 

[mykeal]

Those metal plates the keys fit through are called 'escutcheons'. A small, thin flat file will put them right in short order. Had to do that on both my GPR's.

A useful mod is to 'pin' the keys so they are captive in the stock when they are backed out to remove the barrel. There's a thread on that in the Gun Builder's Bench subforum. Do a Boolean search on the term "Slotted/pinned Wedges" (including the quote marks), subject only, in the Gun Builder's Bench subforum.

 

[BrownBear]

With the barrel down in the channel, look at the front forend cap before you do anything else. If the barrel isn't resting freely all the way down at the bottom, the barrel isn't seating all the way. That would easily explain why the slots aren't lining up.

 

[410-er]

I'm guessing there might be a bit of sawdust or wood that is on the bottom of the tang preventing the hook breech to drop. :hmm:

 

[Moloch]

Hopefully I havent got the 1 rifle in 10000 which is bugged; with my luck it could be possible.

Tomorrow I'll get it back from the gunsmith, maybe I can fix it. Its my first lyman/investarms rifle, as it seems its not a common problem having a completely bugged rifle. Mabye I just have to sit down and try it again, calmly using my brain. :hmm:

I will post tomorrow, maybe I can make a few pics if I dont get it to work.
I will do it in that order:

* Cleaning the barrel hook and the slot
* Inspecting the ramrod spring
* Looking for possible space between barrel and stock
* Using the correct barrel keys for each slot
* Going insane if it does not work this way. :haha: :barf:

 

[jtmattison]

Moloch,
You'll get it together in no time. Just check the things we suggested.

To bad you're in Austria. If you were in San Antonio, TX I'd get it fixed up for you in a flash. I've got so many Lyman rifles fixing them up is like second nature to me.

HD

 

[BadHorse]

I'm guessing there might be a bit of sawdust or wood that is on the bottom of the tang preventing the hook breech to drop. :hmm:

this is where the problem may be! on mine i had to relieve some just to get the tang in correctly, and then the barrel sat where it was supposed to.

 

[Moloch]

Just before I brought the rifle to the gunsmith I found some excess wood between the two barrel wedge pin notches, but I did not think that such small amount of wood could cause that much trouble.
I really have to check out if there is any space between barrel and stock tomorrow. I will remove some of it with sandpaper and try it again.

I was so annoyed by this problem that I couldnt even think rationally. Maybe thats the root of the problem. :shocked2:

 

[Moloch]

So, got it back today and tried out every suggestion here, no success.
The barrel is perfectly hooked, there is no space between barrel and stock, no wood is blocking the wedge pins. One barrel wedge pin is slightly longer, changing them around, turning them didnt help at all.
My hands hurt because I had to pull the pins at least 20 times.:cursing:

Here is a pic about the pin offset on the other side:

 

[BadHorse]

just for grins, take the barrel out, remove the tang from the stock, leave the tang out, and replace the barrel, this will tell you if the barrel is seated or not. im still guessing this is where the problem is

 

[Moloch]

Karwelis:

I just tried that, the problem ist still there. No tang and the barrel wedges do not fit.

So its either a stock inletting problem of investarms or the barrel wedge notches are too low.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Man, that's frustrating. I can see how close they are. Have you tried marking the underside of the barrel with pencil lead or inletting black and pressing it in to see where it is hanging up? Maybe the stock was a bit out of position in the machine when the barrel channel was routed. It seems that the barrel channel just isn't deep enough. How are your inletting skills?

If you measure down from the top of the stock to the tops of the escutcheon plates are the dimensions the same on both sides of the stock?

Would it be easier to file a bit off of the upper edges of the escutcheon plates?

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Moloch]

My inletting skills are quiet low, I would probably screw up the stock and so I cannot get any money back.
The barrel wedge pins seem to be very close at the picture, but there is much more space between the inserts and the pins. Strangely the first pin is much more off than the second one.

Maybe there is really a problem with the stock inletting. :hmm:

 

[tecum-tha]

Ok,from the picture I can see that the escutchons are a little lower than what is needed for the barrel wedge. Carefully file off a little bit of material from the top of the wedge. To pull the wedges it helps to use a swiss pocket knife. Use the screwdriver blade with the bottle opener to go between the wedge and the escutchon and lever them out. To put them back in use the plastic grip of a screw driver and hammer them in with medium power. If it will not go in, remove more material.It should be fixed after a few trials. If the barrel wedge clears the escutchon, the hammering should bend it to shape. :thumbsup: