GPR To Hawken?

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm just rolling around thoughts in my head, and this popped up.

What would have to be done to a GPR to make it pass for a Hawken? I've seen pictures of real Hawkens with 32" barrels, so that will be ok.

I have a few things on my list, but i'd rather hear from the experts.

 

[Vaino]

Here's a couple of pics of a LH Stith S. Hawken which is supposed to be pretty close to the originals. The stock architecture is impressive and I'll let you decide the differences to see if what you want is possible. The tapered bbl length is 37" including the hooked breech and I think it adds a lot to the overall look.....Good luck....Fred

 

[ebiggs1]

Which is which?
I posted this a couple times and get the “best” answers! :wink: There is a real one included.

 

[LaBonte]

What would have to be done to a GPR to make it pass for a Hawken? I've seen pictures of real Hawkens with 32" barrels, so that will be ok.

I have a few things on my list, but i'd rather hear from the experts.

While it's true there are quite a number of variations in original Hawken's the devil as always is in the details and that's why Lyman called their version the Great Plains Rifle, since it is not a copy of an original, but rather their interpretation of a generic late 1830's-50's half-stock mountain/plains rifle, of which the Hawken was just one make.
My point being why call it a Hawken or try to make it into one since it is in it's own way just as PC a gun as a Hawken would be? There are some general changes that would make it a bit more PC such as refinishing using a period linseed oil based varnish, etc., but overall the GPR (in percussion anyway) is pretty good as is - not "perfect" perhaps, but then getting perfect is going to cost a whole lot more....
I don't have a GPR in hand or easily available or I would offer more advice on the cosmetic changes that would make it a bit more PC - one thing though might be to spend more money on just shooting it and putting some regular wear and tear on it giving it that used but not abused look.

FWIW - comparing originals to modern copies in such lower quality photos or even in high quality photos can be a frustrating at best since it's again the details (often minor in and of themselves, but when added together make a big difference albeit sometimes subtle) that make the difference and the only way to clearly see and understand them is to in fact handle the real thing - ask any builder of any muzzleloading gun who has ever worked with just photos alone or even with exact measures and then ask those who has handled the real McCoy - I'm betting everyone would tell you there's no comparison when trying to make an exact duplicate of the original.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I've actually made a decision since posting this, but we can't edit out posts after a short period of time (I hate that)

Anyway, instead of trying to make a Hawken from a GPR. I'll get the closest kit I can find, and build that. I know it's going to take me a very long time. Since it will be my first build. I won't accept any sloppy work from myself, and I won't be surprised if I ruin the first stock. Not my plan, but I won't be surprised.

I think if I got the GPR and made it close to a Hawken. I might be tempted to say...Good enough and never build a proper Hawken.

I also knew I wasn't going to be satisfied with shooting my Renegade while I build the Hawken. It might take me a couple of years to get it built.

So, I just bought a GM 32" 1-70 .50 barrel for the Renegade. I know i'll never say..Good enough for the Renegade. It's just too far away from looking even close to a Hawken. That will keep excited about building what I really want.

I'll mess with the Renegade. I'm going to make it look like an old gun. I'll antique the metal, and the wood a bit. Put on primitive sights and shoot it until my shoulder bleeds. I'll go to some club shoots, hunt deer and coyote, and do some MM camp outs alone.
I've found out the MM era didn't end in 1840. I'll move it up to 1860 or so. I need to gather/make lots of things. Plus i'mm be in the mountains everyday as soon as it warms a bit. I'll be busy.

 

[J.D.]

Anyway, instead of trying to make a Hawken from a GPR. I'll get the closest kit I can find, and build that. I know it's going to take me a very long time. Since it will be my first build. I won't accept any sloppy work from myself, and I won't be surprised if I ruin the first stock. Not my plan, but I won't be surprised.

IMHO, if you want a reasonably accurate replica of a real Hawken, I suggest going to a few museums and looking at the real deal before you begin to work on that stock. Moreover, I suggest buying a coupla books on Hawken rifles before you even make a trip to the museum, so's you will have a few ideas of what to look for.

There are a LOT of subtle details, plus the apparent, fine workmanship that identifies a real Hawken from other makers. Like LaBont said, the devil's in the details.

I have handled a few originals, but I'm no expert, so I won't pretend to know all there is to know about Hawkens, or any other original, for that matter.

That said, I suggest doing as much research as possible before putting rasp to wood, otherwise, you will only end up with a more expensive version of a GPR, instead of a reasonable facsimile of of a Hawken.

God bless

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Exactly my plan J.D.

Thanks.

 

[Twice boom]

Here's a couple of pics of a LH Stith S. Hawken which is supposed to be pretty close to the originals. The stock architecture is impressive and I'll let you decide the differences to see if what you want is possible. The tapered bbl length is 37" including the hooked breech and I think it adds a lot to the overall look.....Good luck....Fred

That's a fine looking rifle is it yours.
Twice.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Here's a couple of pics of a LH Stith S. Hawken which is supposed to be pretty close to the originals. The stock architecture is impressive and I'll let you decide the differences to see if what you want is possible. The tapered bbl length is 37" including the hooked breech and I think it adds a lot to the overall look.....Good luck....Fred

I completely missed this post. What a beautiful gun.

That's what i'm talking about. Is the pictured reversed, or does it come in LH? That would make it perfect if it does.

I don't think I could stop smiling if I was walking through the woods with that gun.

Thanks for posting it Fred. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Which is which?
I posted this a couple times and get the “best” answers! :wink: There is a real one included.

I'll guess the 3rd one down from the top.

 

[skeaterbait]

I am going to guess the third one up from the bottom. :yakyak:

 

[Vaino]

The Stith S. Hawken in available in LH and this rifle was built by me a couple of yrs ago for a customer who uses it for elk. The compliments are much appreciated.....Fred

 

[Zonie]

Actually not many of the Mountain Men carried Hawken rifles which leads me to this thought.

Tell folks your Plains rifle was built by John Roper.

J. Roper was a gunsmith in St.Louis from 1836 at least to 1845 and I have no doubt that he built a plains rifle or two.

No, I don't have a photo of one of his guns but then, it is unlikely that anyone else does either so it is difficult for them to say your gun is incorrect.

OK, it was just a thought. :grin:

 

[Bill Hall]

I'm going for the middle one. Bill

 

[marwin95]

A Hawken plan set with schematic and photo type illustrations might be of assistance. I am currently working on a GPR and comparing to the plans helps me to realize that many of the parts/pieces are quite similar and some are very dissimilar. The nose piece for example is presenting quite a challenge. BUT there is no way w/o major alteration that I see to make it exact. I agree with the others that working from photos(especially poor reproductions) is very frustrating.My plan set came from Track.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm 99% sure i'm going with a Don Stith kit.

I just need to decide if I want to go with a pre 1840 or post 1840.

 

[Vaino]

Whether you order a Stith S&J or S. Hawken, ask if the bbl is breeched....the S. Hawken that I bought had to be breeched and the start of the bbl threads had to be ctsk to accept the supplied breechplug. If the 1" to 7/8" tapered bbl is available in right hand, as well as the LH version, I'd order it....makes for a very light and well balanced rifle in .54 cal W/ a 36" bbl. Don Stith is very accommodating asre followup help and he even sent me pics of originals so I'd do it "right". Personally, I'd opt for the S&J Hawken...only built the S. Hawken because the S&J wasn't available in LH...Good luck w/ your choice.....Fred

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Same idea, old thread.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/222175/post/581414/hl//fromsearch/1/

Same idea
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/220641/post/564157/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[Jim Evans]

May want to look at this site. Hawkens

 

[Pete Gaimari]

May want to look at this site. Hawkens

I've memorized that site. :wink: