Grain in Curly Ash?

[Two Feathers]

Howdy Folks Two Feathers here:
I need some good input based on what you know works. I need to get the Pop and Curl to show in a piece of Curly Ash! I tried aqua Fortis and there isn't any sugar in Ash, so AF won't do squat!! I tried dying the wood Yellow then going over it with some Tobacco Brown Guitar stain. It looks OK, but nothing to write home about. I'm looking for some better opinions.
Thanks.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Zonie]

Did you give the bare wood a lye wash before you tried staining it further?

Lye water will dissolve the tannin in the wood and float it to the surface. The areas where the grain is running parallel to the surface won't show much difference but, the areas where the grain is breaking out of the surface (think, "endgrain") will release quite a lot of tannin.
That will cause the stripes to appear much darker than the adjacent areas.

To use lye water, mix about a teaspoon of dry lye into a cup of water. Use a small paint brush made with synthetic bristles. This is important because the lye water will dissolve real hair bristles leaving you with nothing but a handle.
After whiskering the bare wood, paint on one very wet coat of the lye water and let it dry.
Following this, paint a wet coat of vinegar on the wood to neutralize the lye. Then, proceed with whatever staining you want to do.

Needless to say, don't get even a tiny drop of that lye water on you. Especially in your eyes. It can blind you and it will dissolve any flesh it contacts.
Knowing this, I always have a bowl of vinegar standing by so I can neutralize the lye. That said, I can't think of one time when I was doing this that at least one drop of lye water didn't get on me somewhere. Instant fire in a tiny spot is the best description I can think of to describe the feeling.

Applying more than one wet layer of lye water didn't seem to make the contrast between the light and dark stripes for me. It might for you but my suggestion is not to bother with trying it.

When you finish with the lye water, dump the rest of it down your bathroom sink. Any eyelashes, beard or other hair that went down the drain will be dissolved.

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Zonie:
I think we talked about this process awhile back, but it was on Curly Maple.
Thanks again.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Zonie]

Your right. We did talk about it.

I know you and most of the others know what makes the wood "curly", forming stripes on it but for those who don't know, the grain in curly wood grows in a wave like shape. When the board is finished by cutting, grinding or sanding, the surface will cut thru those waves leaving areas where the grain is running parallel with the surface and other areas where the wave was cut off.
The cut off waves are very similar to "end grain" on a board cut to length. That end grain is very porous so fluids can easily penetrate into and out of it.

A sketch of the wavy shape of the grain is below.

If you have a small piece of curly wood, try splitting it lengthwise with a chisel. If you can get it to split you will be amazed at the wavy shape of the two pieces surfaces.

 

[Ames]

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Zonie:
This may help some Newbies understand the organics of grain structure?. I know it's a mystery sometimes how one thing seems to work great, and another doesn't, but then next time, everything works!? It's all in the wood prep: then the application of stains, dyes, and finishes. OH.... the wood grain/ type definitely helps!!
I think I have a handle on this Curly Ash issue, we'll see?
Thanks again for your input. If I DO devide to try your method, then just where the Devil do I buy Lye? I haven't heard of anyone selling it since I was a kid in the 50's? Then you could buy it at any grocery store for making soap.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[MSW]

if you have a real hardware store (with a pressed tin ceiling and squeaky narrow plank floors) you will find it in the soap making section. If not, your big-box hardware store might be able to help, but then again, maybe not ... i think you can get it on flea-bay

good luck with your project!

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks MSW:
I'll check with my 1800's hardware store. Pretty sure there's at least one of those here? My uncle owned one here in town, until the 80's, Too bad he's passed. The store closed.
Thanks again, maybe Lowes or Home Depot? Or as you said I can check Flea-Bay.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Ames]

Any candle/ soap making shop, hobby shop with soap supplies, bee keeper supply web sites ( Betterbee). They all carry it in the candle/ soap making pages. Good ol' hardware store out of reach from the kids.
FleaBay has it too. You want the red label stuff, not food grade.

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Ames:
I can probably get it from Hobby Lobby, but I'm not sure? I know they sell soap making supplies, or at least they used to? Thanks for the heads up on the Red label stuff too.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Pete G]

Mixing drain cleaner with water will do the trick

 

[Two Feathers]

Pete G:
Do you mean something like Draino???
Two Feathers

 

[JeffG]

I have good results with Fiebing's leather dye. Apply, steel wool it some and reapply a different color.
This tomahawk is curly ash.

 

[Two Feathers]

Jeff:
MAN...That's NICE!!!! I didn't know you could Drag that kinda' Curl out of Ash? I have a lot of leftover Fiebings leather dye from my knife business. I'll give it a shot. Thanks. This is just for a small knife handle but I want it to look good! Maybe I shouldn't have made such a big deal out of it?
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Ames]

No. You are right to make a big deal out of it. The knife will look awesome.

 

[Two Feathers]

Ames
Well.... it IS your knife!
Thanks for the support.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Ames]

Shhhhh, nobody knew that!

 

[Zonie]

I buy 100% lye at my local Ace Hardware store. The last plastic bottle of it I bought was called ROOTO. They used to carry RED DEVIL lye.
I found it in the plumbing section of the store.

I'm not sure if DRANO would work or not. It contains lye but it also contains several other things like Sodium Silicate and that might or might not create problems with its ability to leach out the tannin from the wood.

 

[1950DAVE]

Never heard of tannin in lighter woods such as ash and maple but in woods with red, brown and gray coloration, tannin being the active agent in the color. I worked with wood floors and furniture for more than 40 years . Most finishes were stains with surface finishes. Some dyes and penetrating oils were occasionally used though. Sometime lye was used to leach color from a floor ( think of weathering). Oxalic acid was also used to bleach wood especially to remove certain types of stain. Lye requires an acid to neutralize. Acids require a base for neutralization.
Here is a shot of the lye I use . 99.9% pure sodium hydroxide. From my local hardware store.

 

[1950DAVE]

Forgot pic.