GRICE Marked Brown Bess

[BigSkyRambler]

Received a

Brown Bess replica with a group of guns today. Only visible markings are on the lock, and some letters on opposite side of breech. Any idea who made this?

 

[BillinOregon]

Again, it sure looks like a Miroku.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Again, it sure looks like a Miroku.

Thanks. Will it be stamped JAPAN on underside of barrel?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks. Will it be stamped JAPAN on underside of barrel?

Nope, because that's an Italian made Pedersoli 2nd Model Bess.

The trigger guard is the wrong shape for the Miroku, and the lock is engraved "GRICE" when Miroku Bess were "TOWER". There is an odd little "arrow" between the crown and the frizzen spring, on the lock face, that was added after it was made, but that's only half of the actual stamp that would be seen on a real Bess.



LD

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Nope, because that's an Italian made Pedersoli 2nd Model Bess.

The trigger guard is the wrong shape for the Miroku, and the lock is engraved "GRICE" when Miroku Bess were "TOWER". There is an odd little "arrow" between the crown and the frizzen spring, on the lock face, that was added after it was made, but that's only half of the actual stamp that would be seen on a real Bess.



LD

Cool! Is it marked PEDERSOLI anywhere? Nothing on top or sides of barrel. Don't want to misrepresent anything.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

This on tang and behind trigger guard.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Looks like maybe there’s been a bit of defarbing done. But like Dave said, it’s a Pedersoli. They were the only replica that marked their locks Grice. And all of the Miroku Bess models have a bent trigger guard……based of the original that they copied for reproduction.

Both are great guns and very durable.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Defarbed is good. Thanks.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Defarbed is good. Thanks.

You might pull the barrel and see if the previous owner some time in the past had the serial number moved to below the edge of the stock.
It's a foolish thing to do, as the vast majority of LEO's will not know to look under the stock line for a serial number, if it ever becomes recovered property. You might also carefully remove the butt plate and look at the area of the stock that is covered by the plate. Sometimes owners mark or use a permanent marker on the stock in that location for identification purposes.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

Received a View attachment 198679View attachment 198680Brown Bess replica with a group of guns today. Only visible markings are on the lock, and some letters on opposite side of breech. Any idea who made this?

The lock on my Pedersoli BB looked exactly like that.

 

[BillinOregon]

Boy, was I all wet! I. have owned both Miroku and Pedersoli Besses some years back, and certainly got them backward.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Boy, was I all wet! I. have owned both Miroku and Pedersoli Besses some years back, and certainly got them backward.

Don't sweat it. I keep calling figured Walnut Maple!

 

[dave_person]

Hi BigSky,
I responded to you on the ALR site. The engraving on the lock is probably copied but not Pedersoli. The shape and form of the crown and its details are not what you see on Pedersoli locks. Below is a Pedersoli lock. Note how the bottom of the crown and the shading lines are completely different from yours. This is cast-in engraving so it does not change.

Note the position of the "1762" relative to the border lines and the "R". Different font. Remember, this is cast-in not engraved individually on Pedersoli locks.

Unless Pedersoli made special runs of locks that differed from the rest, it looks like someone tried to copy a Pedersoli lock and also added a few more details (the crown arrows (minus the crowns). The inletting and fitting of the musket also appears to be better than Pedersolis. A view of the butt plate tang would be helpful and a measurement of the height of the plate from top of the tang to the bottom of the toe.

dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

Constantly blown away by Dave's attention to and knowledge of details.

 

[2 shots]

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Unless Pedersoli made special runs of locks that differed from the rest, it looks like someone tried to copy a Pedersoli lock and also added a few more details (the crown arrows (minus the crowns). The inletting and fitting of the musket also appears to be better than Pedersolis. A view of the butt plate tang would be helpful and a measurement of the height of the plate from top of the tang to the bottom of the toe.

dave

Unless it is an actual, factory Pedersoli lock, and when the barrel markings were "defarbed" a previous owner also had the lock engraving "cleaned up", and thus the added engraving and the incorrect " /|\ " stamped on the lock plate, barrel tang, and stock.

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

This is a hand made Pedersoli brown Bess lock, made from 1970 - around 1980 when started using CNC equipment with the newer lock. This lock was used on the navy arms second model brown Bess, coach harness long land and Dixie gun works Stowe short and long land. This older lock has engravings instead of stamped markings or casted markings …. The arrow is likely an after market addition.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

All this while I was on other issues. Going to take barrel off and see what's on underside.

 

[fireman1]

Any update on this?