Grouse

[Stumpkiller]

Any grouse hunters in this flock? Ruffed or otherwise. Getting to be the season here come this Friday. I actually do much better on deer when comparing kills to hours afield, but I love grouse hunting. "Taking my gun for a walk" as I tell my wife.

This year I have a dog to try and teach, which should be interesting because this is my first dog and I have less idea than he does what he should do. I figure as long as I can get him to stick in sight I've done well. He's not gun shy (he impressed the Marines of the USS Constitution by sitting through two "rounds" of a 6 pounder cannon and assorted musket volley fire), but he usually walks behind me (I think the woods spook him a bit). All tips would be appreciated.

My grouse m/l is a T/C New Englander 12 ga w/1-1/4 oz # 6 shot, 82 gr FFg & Circle Fly wads.

 

ahhhh grouse been open here sence the 1st and will be open tell i believ Dec 31, nuthin like a big blue or the speed of a ruff :thumbsup:

 

[madstone]

Stumpkiller,
I know nothing about grouse dogs, lots about "coon dogs". All I know is find someone who has good grouse dogs and hunt your dog with him. We had hounds that could do all but skin the coon. But, we never let them hunt with "trashy" dogs. Dogs are smarter than I am and pick up bad habits worse than teenagers! Unfair to let them pick up bad ideas and then have to whip them for it.
I keep forgetting. The dogs of todays are pets as well as hunters. Dad never would let us "pet" the good dogs, nor the pets go with us hunting!!
My "ole" 12 gg dbl would be perfect for birds? That quick second shot makes for downed birds if needed. I like NE's though. You have good taste! Good load too.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I used to coon hunt with a friend and his father-in-law (a farmer). The farmer had a pair of blue tick hounds that were absolutely the most ferrocious, but down to business, dogs I have ever known. When they were with him, they behaved like a pair of Secret Service Agents guarding the President. If he wasn't around that would growl and snap and basically act like they wanted to tear you apart. Coon hunting is an interesting sport. He'd unsnap their leads and we'd spend the next few hours falling over old barbed wire in the dark, trying to echo-locate dogs a quarter mile away. When they started shrieking, we'd run before they exhausted themselves body-slamming and snapping at the tree and each other. Then, you tried to find a pair of eyes 60 ft up in a tree with the flashlight you'd been nursing all night, and put a .22 WRM between them. As long as the coon hit the ground dead all was well, but if it struggled we just let the farmer wade in clubbing and cursing because that coon was burger, and anyone other than that farmer was fair game, too. :shocking:

Had a neighbor where I grew up that had three beagles that were h # llspawn. They hunted, killed children (well, they would have liked to), smelled like rotten weasels and that's it. Never saw the inside of a home.

Not your basic family pets. I'll trade a bit of "game" for a dog that sleeps at my feet, laughs at my stories and listens to my problems.

 

[Keith]

The first hunting I ever did was for grouse. Used to have a good place in the 'Dacks near my grandfather's home for 'em. But that grew up, the grouse moved on and pop passed away. I would sure like to hunt grouse with my dad some more. Where I live these days you couldn't find a grouse if your life depended on it. It's mostly farms up here and all the locals think pheasants are where it is at. I rather hunt grouse.
LOL, only one I ever killed i got with the bumper of my 4X4.
A gentleman that works for the same agency as I sadi he used to hold annual "grouse scares" after the big game season. :crackup: I always thought that was a good way to describe hunting for grouse.

 

[madstone]

Stumpkiller,
Sounds like my old dogs! They were NOT pets. They were used, like tools, to get a coon. They were very good at following ONLY a coons track. We would occasionally let them off for mistaking a cat for a coon. They smelled alike, or so we were told. Chasing anything else led to a "whipping". Hard to discipline dogs to this but they were not stupid and soon realized they must overcome instinct to chase anything if they wished to please the master. "We are their Gods". Like our God they obeyed, or didn't, according to their training, or the fervency of their temptation.
Sometimes I felt sorry for them when my Dad whipped them for transgression. But, he made it clear that it was better to whip him one time, badly, for chasing a fox, than many times, lightly. We whipped "old Spot " one night for chasing what we percieved to be a fox. The only way we had to judge him was it's path. Foxes make different circles than coons. The next night we treed a HUGE coon up a big W/O and upon the first crack of the 22 at his shining eyes, HE came down, in plain sight, and took off for the very path run the previous night by the "fox". As our dogs went out of hearing we realized we had whipped him for running a coon the previous night! Didn't coddle him or cry, he was taken out the next time and treated like all was well. Old Spot is chasing the Lord's coons now and he was the best! :m2c:

 

[cayugad]

I really enjoy grouse hunting. I live in a grouse hunters paradise. I've has as many as 10 grouse at one time (my father was visiting and was going nuts watching the grouse walking around the yard) into the bird feeders in my yard, so they are always around the woods for me.

I also have a black labrador who is an excellent grouse dog. He is very old now, gray around the muzzle, slowed down a lot and I learned he has lymes disease to boot so his days are kind of numbered. At least he is still more then willing to go out and chase them up. The medication he is on seems to be working for which I am very happy. I will be using my .62 caliber black powder rifle this year, so it should be a real kick.

If you want to train your dog, get a book (or tape) by Richard Wolters... called GUN DOG. He also has books called WATER DOG and then there is FAMILY DOG. His training method will turn your dog into a super hunter and family pet to boot. I train my dogs with all three books since they are not only grouse and phesant dogs but have to know water fowl hunting as well.

 

[RussB]

Not your basic family pets. I'll trade a bit of "game" for a dog that sleeps at my feet, laughs at my stories and listens to my problems.

That's my thoughts on a dog too. In my way a thinking, a dog has to be your "buddy".
Me and my "Buddy" haven't done very well on grouse this year. I've been after them since the 1st of Sept. but a rainny spell hit and scattered 'em to kingdom come. I think I have six, so far. I got a double on about the second day that I didn't see get up. I thought I had blown the target bird in two pieces, when I saw two "pieces" fall!
My own load is exactly as Stumpys, in a 16 gauge (.66 cal).

I have a picture of my dog from just before season, no pictures "yet" with the birds. Seems I forget about the camera, which I have had with me on at least one sucessful trip. Buddy was two years old this August, and was too much of a puppy to hunt last year. So this is his first year. And he works like he was born to it.

He is a pretty good listener too. I've told him about all the "good old days", about some other dogs I've owned, and I keep telling him I know where a pretty little girl Springer lives...got to keep him interested, ya know.

 

[cayugad]

Russ...

Springers are a great grouse dog. I had them for many years and was raised around them.

In fact when I left home and went out on my own I was looking for a dog and went to a excellent kennel that had springer pups for sale. When I got there the man was culling the pups. He had a runt female that he was going to put down because she was so tiny. I offered him $10.00 for her and he gladly accepted but without the papers. Which was fine. I took her home and because she was so little I kind of babied her but she made it. Because of her spoiled treatment a more attentive and eager to please dog there never was. She grew up to about 20+ pounds full grown. Yet she had no physical deformaties other then smaller then the other springers we had owned. Well she was a grouse hunting fool. Because of her size she could get into brush piles faster then light and lived to hunt grouse (although after she got beat up by a wounded Canadian Goose, she wanted nothing to do with them). She was terrible as a water retreiver for some reason. My old Springer males would swim rivers to get a duck. She would not even step in a puddle if she could avoid them.

When I got into water fowl more, I went to labradors, yellow and blacks. They are great water dogs besides being upland game bird dogs, and a better family dog I do not know of.

Number Seven here has a great nose and has never lost a bird knocked down yet. He is also know to be able to find almost anything I tell him to find.

Strange how attached we get to our animals....

 

[Stumpkiller]

Jake. Pointing "land".

 

[RussB]

Cayugad....You just gotta love them Labs! I have owned several over the years. My very best, all time best, dog, was a Chocolate female. I had her for 14 years! Finally had to put her down a few years back. Osteo Arthritis to the point she was miserable, day and night, and I just could not take it seeing her that way. A very bad day in this old boys life..... Too much hunting in ice cold water, actually too much after ten years of age...the Vet said.

I also have a Black Lab mix w/chow right now. He is 4 years old, and is "Mama's" dog, if you know what I mean. He will retrive "dummies" quite well, and has picked up a few birds, but he does not have the nose, or the die hard drive of my Springer. Once Buddy, my Springer, gets some age on him, I think he is going to be just fine.

As you have owned Springer Spaniels before, you well know they go from puppies to adults....problem being, they miss that adolescent stage, and seem to stay puppies forever.

Nice Lab you have there.
Russ

 

[RussB]

Stumpy, What breed is "Jake"? He sure does look like he's on point! May be there's a little girl doggie we are not seeing in the picture, I'm told things like that will make some things stand up...just like his little tail. :crackup:


Russ

 

[Stumpkiller]

Talk about my dog? You bet!

Jake is a Kerry Blue Terrier. Not very common in the U.S.. KBTs and the Soft-Coated Wheaton Terrier are the only single-coat terriers, and the KBT is the only terrier with webbed toes. Full grown he'll go 40 lbs and 20" at the shoulder and his puppy black coat will fade to slate blue. Their hair is like a poodle or a Portugese Water Dog (breed legend has it that several PWDogs were stranded in Ireland when the Spanish Armada floundered on the coast & that breed was mated with a now "extinct" terrier). In Ireland they use them as birders and for general purpose duties. They were also used by poachers because they are VERY quiet and are very dog aggressive (we're trying to socialize him well, the U.S. lines are much less aggressive).

Jake barks (Deep Bark!) about once a week. Always at a noise he can't see. He has yet to bark at anything in front of him. I only allow him two "woof"s at a time. Not too long ago they were bred to kill the dogs of the landed gentry (Irish Setters and WOLFHOUNDS!, both breeds the commoners were forbidden to own), to protect the poacher. They still have a reputation as "dog killers", but that is mostly because they don't EVER back down and they have powerful jaws. At 6 months he snaps fresh beef shank bones lengthwise after about an hour's chewing. Up until 1972 they had to drag a badger of at least their own weight out of his hole and kill it in order to qualify as a champion.

His daddy and grandpa are each 40 lbs of teeth and muscle; and are soft as kittens and worship humans. I posted on the "Let's Assume . . ." thread a picture of a KBT in Eastern Europe cutting a wounded Russian Boar out of a flock. Tough little doggies!

 

[RussB]

Geeez! I never knew that. A very interesting treatise on the breed. I want one!
When your dog is on "point", is it a very stiff "freeze", sometimes in the most gawd awful position?
The reason I ask is I have a friend that has some kind of wire haired pointer from Germany (I think), Deutcher Jagt Hund, or something similar. (We can't hunt together with our dogs because his dog is so protective. If my dog gets even close to John, that Jagt Hund would literally tear my dog up....he is one bad boy!)
Anyway, the dog has a fantastic nose, and he eases / kinda sneaks up to about 10yds from the bird and "bows up" in a wierd position always "looking" directly toward the bird, but his rear end can be any where, and in some very akward looking positions...I never fail to laugh!
John tells me it's typical for the breed. They don't point per se, but you know they are on point!

GOOD looking dog Stumpy! I love dogs! Never get enough of 'em. Seeing the dog work MAKES a hunt for me. I don't have to fire a shot...just watch.
Russ

 

[leadball]

AHHH, ruffed grouse hunting. I love it. I live in Douglas county, in northwest wisconsin and loads of county forests, WMA, and ruffed grouse society projects. It's nothing for us to get 6-7 flushes per hour, and this is a low cycle year. gets better on the peak cycle. All manages for timber and wildlife habitat. LOts of public land. Too many leaves still on the trees though. I usually average a couple per trip early but once the leaves come of the trees my average per trip rises. This is Ruffed grouse paradise. I thank the Great Spirit for it all. Deer, bear, grouse, hares, ect. no starving here!! :RO: Ruffed grouse with wild rice, steamed asparagus, and a nice white wine....Perfecto :thumbsup:

 

[Deadeye]

Ruffed and Blue, locally called Pine hens, grouse seasons are on now. We have lots of them in the mts. We also have Sage and Sharptails, but not as many.

 

[eat moose meat]

Season opened here oct 1st. I went out in the morning with my 28 ga. tulle and limited out by 9am 4 birds. Best day ive had in years and i did it with a flintlock. As i was sitting under a big pine I thought that I could be the first man in this part of the woods to kill a pat'ridge with a tulle in about 200 yrs. Deep thought always scares me. Most people dont use dogs here in maine. Most grouse try to run instead of fly anyway here. But like ive said before ill shoot a sitting bird. Im not proud. On the way out of the woods the warden service had a checkpoint set up. I was dressed primitive I really got a strange look when i got out of the truck. He was thinking boy have i got a nut here. :youcrazy: He also found little humor when I told him hunting licenses have not been invented yet. I showed him my license he checked my birds to make sure i did not have spruce grouse mixed in they are protected here. Ive heard they taste like manure. I would not know. But its easy to confuse the two when they are in flight. The best part was when he asked to check my gun. He looked at it and said your kidding right? wheres your other gun. I said I have only the one look at how im dressed. Dont you think id look a little silly lugging a remington 870. He agreed. Wardens have no fashion sense whatsoever. I mean blaze orange clashes with all of my shoes. :crackup: Well he asked me how I loaded it I said hey we are the only two guys here in the middle of the woods. Would you like to shoot it. Well he did and thought it was kind of cool that someone still uses these things. Best warden check I ever had. Like I said flinters are rare here and flintlock hunters I can count on one hand. Going out again wed. spending the night at camp. Fried grouse, toast, and hot coffee. ahhhh.

 

[GobblerKnob]

I can tell you we scared the bejesus out of a lot of 'em! ::
It was not uncommon to flush 5 - 8 out of his stand of scotch pines. Of course, it wasn't often we could get a shot, let alone a good shot.
We took a lot of pictures to commemorate our trip by posing with our guns and holding up our hands as if we were actually holding grouse or rabbits. Those Grouse Scares were some good times...
Rick

 

[Keith]

I can tell you we scared the bejesus out of a lot of 'em! ::
It was not uncommon to flush 5 - 8 out of his stand of scotch pines. Of course, it wasn't often we could get a shot, let alone a good shot.

Rick

WOW! I thought the grouse hunting was good near my grandfather's old place. Flushes like that would be incredible! I really need to think about moving.
Keith

 

Stumpkiller,
While I like to hunt grouse I'm not overly successful at it. If I take my .45 flint and head shoot them on the ground or in trees I do well but when I take my 20g sxs flint, well, the grouse don't have much to worry about. I will only wing shoot them with a shotgun and without dogs, I have a hard time getting a shot. last year I had one flush up into a tree, I even went and kicked the tree to get the thing back in the air again. It was only about 20 feet from the ground but I couldn't get it to fly so I just left it and went looking for another more cooperative one. I can't give any advice save one. I'ld change that #6 shot for #8. You could go #7 1/2 but I'ld avoid any bigger. This advice was given me by my neighbor several years ago. the reason being that #8 will not penetrate the body feathers but will go clean through the neck and head. If you use #6, they will go through the body and push all those nasty feathers into the breast . To test his theory, I went out the next day and ground sleused a grouse with my 8g sxs with both barrels loaded with #8. The grouse was plum dead and there was one pellet against the breast but did not enter the meat. His head OTOH was rather perforated.

Cody