Gun used in movie Jerimiah Johnson?

[tiger955]

I want to thank you all for the posts in this thread. :bow:
I was a little bored one day and had just watched the movie, and was curious as to whether such a double was common in the West in that era, and how an Indian would come to have one. So I posted the original question. I was surprised what this thread turned in to, and am always amazed at how much knowledge some of the people on this site have.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Maybe! Ned Roberts book on caplock rifle shooting has a picture in the chapter on hunting rifles of an N.Lewis Rifle and shotgun doublebarrel, .40 calibre onde sideand 14 gauge shotgun the other.

I know there's at least one more example but it's late (early morning) and I gotta go back to bed.

So I guess a good place to start wouldbe to research when the companies that made these weapons were operative. Keep going and who knows?

 

[buckeylee]

You know, I think that I my own this gun. It looks vary similar (exactly actually) to one I own. I bought it at a Little Johns Auction several years back. It was used in the movie Northwest Mounted Police as well as several others. It was owned by the
Stembridge Gun Rental Company.
LOT 87 Double barrel percussion combination rifle-shotgun signed Bixler and Iddinings. Lafayette, Ind., with Stembridge Gun Rental markings. The gun measures approximately 53-1/2” overall with 38” barrel groove. The left barrel is approximately .50 cal rifle; the right barrel is 10-gauge. The gun is mounted with a large buckhorn rear sight and a standard blade front sight. The stock is tacked with large brass and steel tacks and wrapped at its grip. The condition is good with many storage marks and scratches on the barrel and some dings and mars on the stock but generally good overall. The trigger guard is an old replacement and some small screws are replaced. The butt shows an inventory #67 and there is a #665 stamped on the rib. The rear sight has been moved back approximately 1-1/2” during period of use. An old ”˜of the period’ ramrod is included. This gun is identifiable in many scenes of Cecil B. DeMilles Classic Movie “Northwest Mounted Police” by Paramount Studios.

I would really appreciate the best images anyone can find of the gun in Jeremiah Johnson so we could compare them.
buckeylee

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Morning TRH,

Raymond W. Thorpe and Robert Bunker co-authored the book CROW KILLER ABOUT John Johnston (not Johnson). Later, Vardi Fisher wrote his book, MOUNTAIN MAN, which borrowed heavily from CROW KILLER and was used as the basis for the movie JERMIAH JOHNSON. I have always thought the movie was poorly done.Guess Hollywood was too PC, even then, to film some of the actions that Johnston was supposed to have done.

Mr. Thorpe also wrote the book BOWIE KNIFE, which is still a classic work on the Bowie Knife. More recent research calls some of Mr. Thorpe's work into question.

I was correspoding with Mr Thorpe about Bowie knives when CROW KILLER was published in 1960. Mr Thorpe had given me a heads-up on it, and ASAP, I bought it in soft back cover. Later a hard cover copy was purchased.

When I read about Johnston buying a 30 caliber Hawken, a letter went to him right away asking him about that. I had been reading about and researching Hawken rifles since 1957 and had never heard of a 30 caliber Hawken.

In due time Mr. Thorpe wrote and stated that was a misprint. His copy of his original manuscript clearly states the Hawken rifle was a 50 caliber.Incidently, the soft cover edition shows John Johnston carrying a lever action Winchester.

Mr, Thorpe also admitted that he had overlooked the 30 calber mistake in the proof copy sent to him. Also said that quite a bit of material had been edited out of the original manuscript. I wish I had thought to ask about getting a copy of that original manuscript.

Before Mr. Thorpe passed away, I was able to finally meet him and he signed both of my books.

I hope that this clears up the question of Crow Killer's "30 caliper" Hawken rifle.

My best regards and respect to All,

John L. Hinnant

"Good and Texas"

 

[Claude Mathis]

When I read about Johnston buying a 30 caliber Hawken, a letter went to him right away asking him about that. I had been reading about and researching Hawken rifles since 1957 and had never heard of a 30 caliber Hawken.

In due time Mr. Thorpe wrote and stated that was a misprint. His copy of his original manuscript clearly states the Hawken rifle was a 50 caliber.

Are you talking about this line in the movie? "He was looking for a Hawken gun, .50 caliber or better. He settled for a .30, but damn, it was a genuine Hawken, and you couldn't go no better."

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Evening Claude,

No....., I am referencing the book, CROW KILLER. The same misinformation seems to have originated in this book. The last sentence on page 30 of the hard cover editon contains the information about Johnston buying a 30 caliber Hawken from Joe Robidoux, Jr.

The 30 caliber story was used in the movie, Jermiam Johnson. Mr. Thorpe was refering to the mistake in his book, Crow Killer.

I have not re-read MOUNTAIN MAN by Vardis Fisher in a very long time, so do not recall if the 30 caliber story is repeated there.

In all of my years of examining Hawlen rifles, the smallest caliber Hawken I have ever seen was 38, and this rifle was definately not of the famous Hawken "Rocky Mountain Rifle" pattern.

John Baird writes about and has photos of this rifle in his book HAWKEN RIFLES.

My correspondence with Mr, Thorpe was many years before the book MOUNTAIN MAN and the movie Jermiah Johnson.

Have a good day.

My respects to all,

John L. Hinnant

"God and Texas"

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yeah, I was going to say it sounds more like a verbal mistake that Hollywood made, and didn't catch. They probably didn't know what was available or popular in muzzleloading calibers either in 1972 when the movie was released, or in America in the mid 1800's. They might've intended to say "thirty six", but the writer may have been confused by the "modern" .30-30 and other .30 caliber deer rifles that were popular in the 1960's and simply assumed a common caliber back then was similar to common calibers in the writer's experience.

Considering that a 30-bore is a bit larger than a .530 ball, so why if he had such would he have thought he needed something smaller in a .50 caliber?


LD

 

[loco6725]

I think it's a ring of heavy wet snow

 

[Rod Lassey]

James Mitchner made the same mistake in his book 'Centennial'. In all cases, I think they were confusing caliber with guage (balls/lb.). Probably read somewhere that 30 bore was a popular size, and being unfamiliar with the difference, thought it was .30 caliber.

Rod

 

[poordevil]

It is a Cape Gun....one rifled BBL and one smooth bore BBL