Hair Trigger 1860 Army

[Bass]

My 1860 Army is having one heck of a problem! The dang thing has a hair trigger that will scare the pants off of you!

When you cock it all the way back, no matter how gentle there is a 98% chance it will fall to the half cock step. If by chance you get it stay at full cock, even the lightest touch of the trigger will set her off. The trigger sear/bolt spring was replaced when I bought it with one of the wire versions because the original was broken after the first range trip. Before the replacment I don't recall it doing this. :surrender: I'm going to disassemble it for the fourth time to look it over again, if anyone needs photos of possible worn areas let me know and I'll snap them. :surrender:

 

[bingo1952]

Do you get an audible click when the sear falls into the full cock notch? If not I would suspect your replacement spring. If you do you probably should take a look at the angle on the sear and its corresponding notch on the hammer. One or both may need to be slightly altered.

 

[Bass]

On the full cock notch, should there be a "shelf" like there is on the half cock?




Also, upon further inspection this just doesn't look right to me, what do you think? Shouldn't that little stud be "square" and not angled like that?

 

[mykeal]

The full cock notch looks about right; it should not be as deep as the half cock notch.

That 'stud' is correct; it must be angled like that for the bolt leg to fall off and allow the bolt to raise into position at full cock.

Your parts look ok so far; you might post a pic of the sear on the end of the trigger, and one of the trigger/bolt spring installed, especially the position of the legs on the trigger and bolt. If you're not getting the click when the sear drops into the full cock notch I suspect runnball is right.

 

[MSW]

i agree with Mykeal & Runnball... looks like a spring went bad on you.

 

[denster]

Could you post a picture of the sear. I don't think it is the spring as that only has to have enough tension to move the sear into the full cock notch and it should stand by itself under mainspring pressure on the hammer.
Looking at the half cock notch it appears that the sear may not have been clearing it when the trigger was pulled and the sear may have banged into it and been damaged. This can be a problem with some guns when you lighten the trigger spring it doesn't travel as far out of the full cock notch before it has to clear the half cock and smacks into it. I note that the tip of the half cock is not rounded over which is a fix for those guns. I also note some marks at the outside edge of the half cock notch lip.
A quick check would be to pull the hammer all the way to the rear and hold pressure forward on the trigger and let the hammer down to full cock. Now take the pressure off the trigger and if the hammer falls you have a sear problem as I don't see any damage to the full cock notch.

 

[napolean]

I agree with Dennis, the sear spring should move the sear into place, but the correct angles and engagement should hold it until the trigger is pressed. A very strong sear spring can effect trigger pull the other way. Check the top of the trigger and also try mating the parts up outside of the gun. You may be able to tell where the problem is. Sometimes sears can be corrected if there is enough steel to work with. NOT a job for the novice.
Jon D

 

[bingo1952]

If you can take a pic of the hammer in profile. The half cock shows some minor damage where the sear has been catching slightly on its way past. Hair triggers on these guns usually do this because the pull is so light the sear disengages before enough force has been applied to clear the half cock notch.

 

[Bass]

 

[Zonie]

The hammer notches don't look too bad and the trigger sear doesn't look bad either.

I'm haven't had first hand experiance with the round wire trigger/bolt spring so I can't say if it can be installed upside down or not but I do know that if the original flat two leaf trigger/bolt spring is installed upside down it will produce exactly the kind of thing your gun is doing.

You might try turning the new trigger/bolt spring over and installing it. That could fix the problem.

 

[Bass]

Zonie, I don't think the spring is installed backwards, but when I flipped it over it rendered the sear more or less useless as the spring tension was focused directly over the pivot point, and the other "arm" wasn't anywhere near the trigger. Here's what I'm talking about....

I guess I'll just take some super fine sand paper (emery cloth?) and just try to clean up the hammer and trigger a bit to see if there is anything that will show up when its a bit cleaner. Maybe I'll just take on a persona of a half-wit gunslinger with a "better" gun. :rotf:

 

[denster]

It is difficult to tell from the photos but it looks like there is some peening to the sear tip atop the trigger.
Did you try what I suggested about bringing the hammer to full stand and putting forward pressure on the trigger? If you do that and the trigger slips out when you release the pressure then you have a sear problem. As you have allready found out turning the bolt/sear spring upside down results in no spring pressure on the sear as the bolt leg is now facing the sear and it is way to short to reach.
The suggestion to asseble the parts on the outside of the gun is good as you can ssee the problem. You want to adjust the sear so it has a very very slight positive angle with the full cock notch in the hammer.
When you get that straightened out you need to do something about that half cock notch. I'd start about a quarter inch behind it and taper it down till it's about half the thickness or less that it is now. That will let the sear slip by with that light trigger spring.

 

[Zonie]

Bass
Okie Dokie. It was just a guess.
The lower picture is what it should look like.

Make sure the 'trigger' spring isn't hitting against the vertical surface on the trigger when the trigger is installed.
If the trigger 'leg' is a bit too long it might hit there and that would keep the trigger from moving as far forward as it should. It should only be resting against the flat surface that is roughly parallel with the bottom of the receiver.

 

[Don]

I tried to put those wire springs into one of my colts and it was too small. The manufacturer even warns that their springs might cause a hair trigger. My advice is to stock up on the old fashioned flat springs and take off that wire spring. If they made them right they might be worth keeping.

Don

 

[napolean]

What Zonie says may be correct, Not familiar with this type spring but I would think additional careful bending OR stoning a few thousants off the end (by hand) making a flat spot on the short leg of the spring, would or would not make a difference. See no harm in trying.
Jon D

 

[bingo1952]

Your sear and your sear notch are both rounded. this is probably the result of improper hardening. Either replace them with new parts or stone the old ones to establish 90 degree contact points between the two mating parts and reharden. I would do the latter because I know how and I am cheap to boot. Read that as frugal.

 

[Bass]

Thanks for all the tips guys, they are much appreciated. I'll go to work on that spring for now, and order another flat leaf spring.

 

[Norinco]

Your sear and your sear notch are both rounded. this is probably the result of improper hardening. Either replace them with new parts or stone the old ones to establish 90 degree contact points between the two mating parts and reharden. I would do the latter because I know how and I am cheap to boot. Read that as frugal.

That would change the hammer fall distance, so when you cock the hammer, it may be possible to place the hammer on full cock without fully rotating the cylinder.

 

[Dphar]

My 1860 Army is having one heck of a problem! The dang thing has a hair trigger that will scare the pants off of you!

When you cock it all the way back, no matter how gentle there is a 98% chance it will fall to the half cock step. If by chance you get it stay at full cock, even the lightest touch of the trigger will set her off. The trigger sear/bolt spring was replaced when I bought it with one of the wire versions because the original was broken after the first range trip. Before the replacment I don't recall it doing this. :surrender: I'm going to disassemble it for the fourth time to look it over again, if anyone needs photos of possible worn areas let me know and I'll snap them. :surrender:

Hammer is probably soft and needs the FC notch recut and then casehardened with the sear done to match.
This is the usual cause especially in Italian guns.
Try bending the spring for a little more trigger tension. But the sear should stay in the notch even with no spring is its positioned properly.
But few if any hammers and sears (trigger nose in this case) are fit properly unless done by someone after they are sold.

Dan

 

[bingo1952]

Your sear and your sear notch are both rounded. this is probably the result of improper hardening. Either replace them with new parts or stone the old ones to establish 90 degree contact points between the two mating parts and reharden. I would do the latter because I know how and I am cheap to boot. Read that as frugal.

That would change the hammer fall distance, so when you cock the hammer, it may be possible to place the hammer on full cock without fully rotating the cylinder.

The miniscule amount of metal removed is a non-issue. If the hammer is brought back to full cock the way the pistols were designed to be operated the cylinder will rotate fully. There is no sneaky way to cock a traditional single action.