"hairy" Deer Skin Bag opinions
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I just scanned through Madison Grant's book The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch and found no bags identified as being made of deer skin. The vast majority are made of cow hide, a fair percentage of those are calfskin, and he shows 2-3 of those with at least a trace of hair. I saw 1 buffalo hide, 1 beaver skin with hair and 1 bearskin with hair.Hockeyref said:
Spence
Spence10 said:
Yep but that's just one small look into the past and with all due respect to Mr Grant a fairly limited one.
There are well documented bags, mostly German made, that use the hair on skin of the lower deer legs including the toes. These are most often a front flap decoration.
On the other hand, buckskin was used in the east as well as the west - A. J. Miller in his 1837 sketches shows many Indian made bags of native hides, most likely deer.
as always if/when interested in documentation it starts with the four F: who, when, what, where...and I'm not real sure the original post had to with being "PC"?????
Yep I make my own words up at times Bud or at least my fingers do..... :hatsoff:
paulvallandigham
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I have seen skins that had hair on them begin to peel off flakes of skin, like Dandruff. Calling the appearance "Scabbly", or"scabbie" works for me, too. :hatsoff:
Why let Rap musicians and computer geeks be the only people who add new words to our language??? :haha: :rotf:
Why let Rap musicians and computer geeks be the only people who add new words to our language??? :haha: :rotf:
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TC Albert's got an original in his book. It makes the point about shedding though. There are only remnants of hair left.
Like moose, caribou, antelope and elk, deer hair is hollow and prone to breaking. Antelope is worst, followed closely by bou. Deer and elk are middling, and moose is probably toughest, even if it still breaks too. I'm all too familiar with them from a lifetime of fly tying, and have never been inspired to put any of them on a bag.
I do like the prospect of using hair to help shed water, as has been done with bear. I've got an otter hide that has me thinking, but no action yet.
Like moose, caribou, antelope and elk, deer hair is hollow and prone to breaking. Antelope is worst, followed closely by bou. Deer and elk are middling, and moose is probably toughest, even if it still breaks too. I'm all too familiar with them from a lifetime of fly tying, and have never been inspired to put any of them on a bag.
I do like the prospect of using hair to help shed water, as has been done with bear. I've got an otter hide that has me thinking, but no action yet.
paulvallandigham
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My late friend, Don Latter, had a piece of beaver pelt used as the flat on his hunting pouch. The fur shed water better than anything else he had, and always drew attention from people who saw it. He used an otter skin, with fur on , to make a wallet he hung over his sash. Its rich, black fur shined in any light, and always drew comments from viewers. :thumbsup:
LaBonte said:
Nor am I. My reference to Grant was made to provide information only. Hockeyref is free to use it or to ignore it, just as he is the references to "original beaver skin bag with the hair on at local small town museum", "TC Albert's got an original in his book", "My late friend, Don Latter, had a piece of beaver pelt used as the flat on his hunting pouch", your own "A. J. Miller in his 1837 sketches" and the personal opinions expressed by others in the thread. I was only offering a small piece of his puzzle, not trying to tell him what he should do.
"Most likely deer"?
Spence
hockeyref
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Actually, I wanted opinions on both the PC and the Practical.... Want to transition away from the old thrift store purse complete with zippers :idunno: . Thinking about making a bag and don't really know what I want to do... would like something "historically correct" not necessarily "period correct" as my interest covers a range of periods. Currently have a GPR flinter and at some point I plan on getting a Chambers kit (looking at an Isaac Haines or Early Lancaster in .54 - to maintain comonality of my PRB'S). Do not plan or reenacting or anything like that right now, but it would be nice to have the right kit for the rifles. Just in case I do want to at some point.
Spence10 said:
Howdy Spence -
No offense was meant, hopefully none was taken? since I too was only offering info by pointing out Grant's book is but one source.........
As to about being PC or HC - that's why I added a bunch of question marks and that comment was intended for the OP who has now weighed in that yes it does matter at least to a point.
"most likely deer?" - Again a question mark because we have no known existing examples of the shot pouches shown by Miller, but they are definitely of NDN manufacture and the most common hides used for bags of any type by western NDNz is braintan buckskin. On the other hand elk, buffalo, and mtn sheep hides were also used at times so at least some of the bags could have been made from other types of hides.
Hockeyref - based on your last post I would HIGHLY recommend Tim Albert's book and as an adjunct Madison Grant's book, the only caveat on the later is that some of his dates and attributions are now considered questionable based on more current info (mostly dated early that they probably are) - and again that is with ALL due respect for Mr. Grant.
Both are excellent resources, especially for eastern style bags and especially when used with some cross referencing - IMO all references should be used in conjunction with as much cross referencing as possible when seeking to be HC.
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I'll second LaBonte's recommendation of Albert's book, Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch. It not only has lots of examples of original bags in a variety of styles, it is chock full of detailed instructions and excellent step-by-step photos for building a couple of them. Probably the best instruction book I've seen on any subject matter. Priceless for an aspiring bag builder.
As others have said, deer hair is hollow and will break off with use. It would probably take a long time though, before the effects would show. I have a friend who has a hair-on deer cape and has had it for many years. I can't speak to the HC/PC side of use.Hockeyref said:
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I would use Calf skin, looks similar to Deer and is more durable. I'm sure it to will loose hair over time but it won't get "Scabbly" as fast.
hockeyref
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Don't necessarily need to dwell on the deer hair... I have a skin that has been dried\scraped\salted and I'm thinking what I might do with it. I have considered making a quiver, or just tanning it and hanging it on the wall...
Thanks for the references....
Thanks for the references....
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Per hair on bags,from what I gather,the vogue of "professional" type bag makers in the east, seems to have been for hair on flaps or flaps and front panels only when "hair on" hides were used to make shooting bags...and then it seems that the only hides used were either "slunk" skins from unborn calves, or shaved hair calf types...(though the famous Crockett painting does seem to show a very well made bag with a fawn hide flap?)
These are usually very well made professionally finished type bags...(but then again, maybe the sample pool is skewed because only the well made ones survived?)
I have a bag of this description that I'm reasonably sure was made in Pennsylvania in the early/mid 19th century,but was definately collected in Colorado in the early 20th...so even the geographic location where a bag is found can perhaps be misleading?
I also believe that there was an element of Eastern and Western home spun "free style" hair on bag that broke most every rule and used what ever critter was handy or desired from beaver and bear to ground hog...each of these bags seems to be a unique creation unto itself...that said, a hair on white tail hide from a winter shot deer would be a poor leather choice for a bag...and would end up being more of a fur muff...you could however shave the hair down to velvet...I'd contact Jim Webb for advise about how to do that...
TCA
These are usually very well made professionally finished type bags...(but then again, maybe the sample pool is skewed because only the well made ones survived?)
I have a bag of this description that I'm reasonably sure was made in Pennsylvania in the early/mid 19th century,but was definately collected in Colorado in the early 20th...so even the geographic location where a bag is found can perhaps be misleading?
I also believe that there was an element of Eastern and Western home spun "free style" hair on bag that broke most every rule and used what ever critter was handy or desired from beaver and bear to ground hog...each of these bags seems to be a unique creation unto itself...that said, a hair on white tail hide from a winter shot deer would be a poor leather choice for a bag...and would end up being more of a fur muff...you could however shave the hair down to velvet...I'd contact Jim Webb for advise about how to do that...
TCA
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