Half-cock Help Please!

[clayfeld]

I'm going for the Guiness Book of Records for most mistakes per parts set build. I should win it hands down! My current problem is that with my assembled rifle- a Gemmer Hawken parts set from Don Stith- at half-cock there is only about an eight of an inch of space above the nipple- maybe even a little less- and certainly not enough to place a cap without moving the hammer back to full cock. What did I do wrong? How can I correct it?

Thanks, guys.

Clay
San Jose CA

 

[Roy]

Any possible way af getting some pics?

 

[George F.]

Sounds like the sear is short. Maybe the tip is broken a little. Order a replacement, harden and properly temper it, and that should fix the problem.....George F.

 

[clayfeld]

Thanks, George. That must be it. Looking at the sear, the half-cock tip is irregular. It's an L&R 100, and the replacement sear comes already tempered, so it should be a drop-in fit next time I order from TOW.

Clay

 

[musketman]

Sounds like the sear is short. Maybe the tip is broken a little. Order a replacement, harden and properly temper it, and that should fix the problem.....George F.

With the current sear, apply thumb pressure to the back of the hammer and see of it slips to the fired position...

If the sear turns out to be OK, look and see if the nipple's barrel is too long...

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Actually, on a percussion it it desirable to have the half-cock as low as possible so that if it should fail the hammer will not have enough momentum to fire the cap. Flinters require a high half-cock to clear the frizzen but for a percussion, just clear of the cap is best. You should never be able to cap a percussion at half-cock unless it is a converted flint. Full cock, cap, ease the hammer down onto the cap, then pull back to half-cock.

 

[clayfeld]

Thanks, Musketman and Coyote Joe. Pressing forward on the hammer does not release the trigger. I guess that is good, right- means the sear tip is actually OK? It's easy to pull the hammer back with my thumb just a little and cap the nipple, then release it to half-cock. Should I or should I not use a short nipple or cut a bit off the standard one's length?

Thanks,
Clay

 

[paulvallandigham]

Leave the nipple alone. The whole idea of the lock design is to make it impossible for a cap to come off the nipple when the gun is carried in the half cock notch condition, and also make the fall from the half cock position so short that insufficient energy is transferred on impact with the nipple to fire the gun. If you shorten the nipple, you loose this margin of safety. DON'T Shorten the Nipple!

 

[Zonie]

Just a thought on your quote: "It's easy to pull the hammer back with my thumb just a little and cap the nipple, then release it to half-cock."

Most of the current locks have a fly in the tumbler to block off the half cock notch while the hammer is falling from "full cock".

This fly starts working somewhere between half cock and full cock so, if you raise the hammer too far, the fly will prevent the reingagement of the half cock notch. Unfortunatly, you may not realize this is happening until the hammer falls all the way down on a live cap.

This is the reason Coyote Joe said :"...Full cock, cap, ease the hammer down onto the cap, then pull back to half-cock."

Lowering the hammer below the half cock notch and then raising it back to engage the half cock notch assures the fly doesn't cause a problem.

Zonie

 

[clayfeld]

Thanks, Zonie. That seems really important to know! My lock does have a fly- I've had it apart often enought to have checked all the bits and pieces. It just never occurred to me to think about when it engages. I had just assumed it was at full cock. You guys will get me educated sooner or later- and I'll try not to blow off a toe in the meantime!

Clay

 

[paulvallandigham]

Zonie: I believe the quote is from Clay( Paper Tiger), and not me. However, knowing how the reply function is limited, I don't mind. I agree with you.Because of the fly, you have to cock the hammer back to full cock, and then lower it down onto the cap gently, and then bring it back to half cock. I have large hands, so I have never had a control problem doing this safely. Always point the barrel of the gun down range, or in a safe direction ( like up ! ) when in the field doing this little maneuver.

If you practice at home with an empty gun, and no cap, you should be able to cock the gun, and lower the hammer after releasing the trigger, SAFELY, in your sleep. Of course, I grew up with cap guns, six-shooters, and quick draw, and fanning, and I probably operated the hammer on a revolver several thousands of times before I ever put my hand on my first real rifle, or muzzle loader. And a lot of practice included lowering the hammer manually, just like in the movies.

 

[clayfeld]

It's continuing education for me, Paul. Years ago, during my first round of BP shooting, I built and shot CVA kit guns, which all have about a yard-and-a-half of space between hammer and nipple at half-cock. The antique I bought lst year to restore to shooting condition is one of those mid-late century half-stocks with no half-cock at all, so this very low half-cock position on the Hawken was new to me. I appreciate all the help.

Clay