Half-Stock or Full-Stock build?

[Wildpony]

Im pretty new to this forum but have had a lot of firearms experience and have done quite a bit of tinkering with guns.

I just recently got hooked on black powder and was thinking about building my own from a kit some time in the future.

I was thinking of either starting out with a Leeman or a Hawken pattern rifle. What I cant decide is whether I should go with a half-stock or full-stock in either pattern.

So what do you guys say? Which has the greatest potential for accuracy? Which has the best balance and feal? Which is the most handy in the field? It's a long way off but it is a question that has been nagging me. Half-stock or Full-stock?

 

[Zonie]

Gee! That's like saying which do I want, a Porsche or Ferrari?
The best I can do is just give some thoughts about it.

The Halfstocks balance a little better because they typically have a little shorter barrel. Offsetting that shorter barrels weight is the use of an under-rib but it typically doesn't weigh as much as 8 or 10 inches of barrel added to the barrel.

Of the Halfstocks, I would suggest leaning towards the Leman. Although it looks a bit like some of the modern "Hawkens" it has it's own character. It is also generally considered to be much easier to build than a reproduction of a Hawken.

As the percussion Leman often uses a drum sticking out the side of the barrel for the nipple it costs less than the typical Snail Breech setup of a Hawken.

The thing I have against the Leman and Hawken Half Stocks is everybody has one (more or less) so it isn't unique to the average viewer.

The Fullstocks (which represent a older period in time) have (to me) a character all their own. The barrel is often longer than the Halfstocks but if we are talking about the guns I think we are, it will only be about 36 inches long. That's long by modern standards but is still 6 inches shorter than the typical longrifle.

I am suprised you didn't mention the form of ignition.

Allow me to mention the Flintlock is easier to build.
For a Fullstock, the Flintlock is also a little more fitting because IMO the Flintlocks popularity was fading about the same time the Halfstocks were becoming popular.

Reguardless of which style you decide to build, I know you will enjoy the experiance. Well, there may be some things which don't go exactly right and aren't enjoyable but overall, when your finished you will stand back and think "I can't believe I actually built that! It isn't perfect but that has to be the prettiest little gun I've ever seen!

A word of warning though...Once you've built one you will have the bug to build more. :grin:

Zonie

 

[MikeChapin]

As Zonie mentioned before, the half stocks balance a little better. I have not seen any difference between accuracy between half stocked and full stocked rifles.

Myself, I prefer full stocked rifles just because I like the looks and feel of them a little better. I also prefer flinters just because. Last year I built a full stocked flint Hawken .58. Probably not anything that was built in the day but it came out nice.

For a first build, whether flint or percussion, I would recommend the Leman over the Hawken. The hooked breach system on the Hawken is more difficult to get right as is getting the barrel keys in properly as opposed to pinning the barrel.

 

[Brasilikilt]

Hey Pony

I was asking the same question as you just a bit ago about the Leman or the Hawken for my first kit build.

I decided to go with the full stock (left-handed) Leman with flintlock ignition.
Pretty much everyone I asked said that the Leman is ideal for a first time builder as it is a simple design with not a lot of inlays and parts to screw with.

I would go with the flintlock and full stock for reasons Zonie mentioned. If you're going to spend the time to build a rifle, why make it look like something everyone else has?
You can pretty much go to ANY hunting or sporting goods store and find a half stock percussion rifle on the racks.

 

What Zonie and the others have said. You mention Hawken, and Leman. I'm guessing you're interested in the fur trade era. As has been mentioned Fullstocks are easier to build than the halfstocks, and flint is easier still, and might I say a lot more fun (my opinion, others may disagree) As to accuracy, it's not the type of gun, or barrel length, but it's all about the load you develop. Each gun is different and you need to find out what it likes. Before you make a decision, I would get a book on building, I recommend The Gunsmith of Grenville County, available from Track of the Wolf. I would also reccomend a couple of the catalogs for ideas on what you might like to build. Both the Track, and the MBS catalogs are good resources(both are listed in the Links section). Lastly you are going to need some tools , chisels, and files for starters, so the Lee Valley, and Woodcrafters catalogs are helpful resources. Last this site is a helpful resource. Search the archives, and ask more questions. Welcome to the Forum. Bill

 

[Goldhunter]

Welcome to the Forum. Welcome to the Black Powder life. Your stuck now! :grin:

There is some outstanding info on this forum. The search feature can give you ALOT of good advice. Have fun with it. I will be starting my third BP gun this summer. Can't wait.

 

[MSW]

Zonie's points are well taken and well made. I'd go with a full stock, but it is, at the end of the day, a matter of personal preference. Welcome to the fascinating world of launching lead the old- fasioned way!

 

[Wildpony]

Tanks for the input guys. After viewing all your comments it looks like I will go with a full stocked flintlock Leman pattern for my first build. I have found a couple kits that look like I could afford. I reckon I will make it my Fall project and will order it at the end of the Summer. Thanks again, I realy like the simple look of the Leman.

 

[Zonie]

As your considering a Leman, check out the post about stripes in the Builders Bench Forum.
I just added information about how the Leman guns stripes were painted on.

Another though about these leman guns. They were made with Plain maple rather than the fancy curly kind. That right there could save you $60-$150 on the price of a kit.

STRIPES POST

 

[faw3]

While Zonie has a point just ck out how many people looked at Hawken 1,2,and 3 on percs "show your Hawken, 1000s I did 2 half stocks,and am going to try the fullstock Hawken, just a look to it and he flintlock a bit less hassel to make, I would of gone with a Leman but couldnt find any that had less butt stock drop than 4 1/2" which is to much for me, if it wasnt for wanting to try to make something like the Smithson's Hawken Id be makeing the Leman or late Lancaster too. FRED :hatsoff: