Half ****

[Grenadier1758]

I have an original Leman, pulled the lock and guess what, no half ****. I believe it's a bench gun half stock 1 1/8 barrel heavy, 40 cal. Reg open sights. The thing I thought odd was that each part of the lock was marked 32, all parts matched. Any ideas from anyone on this? I will try to post a pic or 2 of the rifle. Takes a man to carry tho, good exercise if you need it.

You do have a bench gun as evidenced by the large across the flats barrel and small caliber bore.

The Leman was made in a large production shop and many sets of lock parts were being assembled into locks at any given time. This was before interchangeable parts and even though the parts were made to the same pattern, they were not interchangeable as all the assembled parts were hand fitted. Therefore, all the parts were stamped with an assembly number so the fitted parts could be gathered to be assembled into the finished lock.

 

[user 53860]

You do have a bench gun as evidenced by the large across the flats barrel and small caliber bore.

The Leman was made in a large production shop and many sets of lock parts were being assembled into locks at any given time. This was before interchangeable parts and even though the parts were made to the same pattern, they were not interchangeable as all the assembled parts were hand fitted. Therefore, all the parts were stamped with an assembly number so the fitted parts could be gathered to be assembled into the finished lock.

Thank you for the info. Makes great sense.

 

[LongWalker]

Would it be possible that some builders long ago omitted the half **** notch so they could eliminate having to come up with or make a fly for the tumbler?

This. Many original hunting and trade rifles were made without a half-**** notch. Flies are an extra complication in manufacture: it is easier to build the rifle with no half-**** notch. I've examined hundreds of original rifles--not bench guns, but hunting rifles/trade rifles, and a large percentage of them don't have and seemingly never had a half-**** notch.

I hunted with a gun for more than a decade that had no half-**** notch and somehow managed to not kill/maim/frighten myself. It does require more caution, but loaded guns are like that.

 

[oldwood]

There's no single answer to this no half **** notch debacle.......This is what I've read from old info.in books from the early 1970's. Many pre-1800 locks are a mixture of European imports , some w/ flies and most not. Some American gunmaker locks , if they had good enough metallurgy to make small parts , might be capable of small parts , like flies and tumblers to fit them ,as well. Somewhere there was a note in something I read , that Indians taught their young braves to pull a trigger with two fingers , so the gun would fire every time. Suspiciously , it makes me deduce that musket locks had half **** notches , but also to get past the half **** notch , a quick trigger pull forced the sear past the notch before the sear nose , could catch there. I had a Charlieville Musket reproduction 20 yrs. ago , and I had to do some adjusting to the tumbler , so it had a friendlier competition level trigger let off , and didn't catch in the half **** notch. Another answer....When percussion locks were used on post flint lock guns , many locks were ordered from hardware dealers. Most of the ones I have examined , had a tumbler with a half **** notch , but the half **** notch was removed , so set triggers could be employed . I've seen at least two of these hardware co. locks , with the company label still on the lock plate. These were marked "Blue Grass" ... Just some thoughts.....oldwood

 

[JamesT]

Muzzle in a safe direction at all times is the answer. Half **** or no half **** doesn't matter. Had a squirrel rifle that I tightened the barrel tang screw just a hair too tight and had two accidental discharges in the woods next time out. Missed two shots at squirrels but know one was ever in harms way. Things happen with firearms. The way folks carried rifles at full **** in times past was with the thumb between the hammer and stock. Not an internet old wives tale. The truth. Not saying it's the best or preferred method but truth. Muzzle in a safe direction at ALL times is paramount.
James

 

[Wireforhire]

My bench rest target rifle with set triggers ..... no half ****, seat the rear trigger and then to full ****. With a hair trigger that can be set off with a light breeze or a feather! Yep, target shooting is what it was built for nearly a hundred years ago.

 

[user 34300]

Builder says he removed the half-**** notch, "as were many originals."

I can see working with crude tools that omitting the half **** on a match rifle could have made sense 160 years ago. A lot of original guns are pretty crude. People were often extremely poor. Most of them died young. Getting killed by accidental discharge might not have been on the list of big worries.

In today's world removing the half **** shows extremely poor judgment. Selling such a rifle borders on insanity. All you have to do is catch the hammer on something, pull it partly back, release and it will fire. An AD that killed or injured someone might well cost a guy everything he has.

Leman trade rifles have single triggers, normally. There is no reason to remove the half **** notch. I would not trust this builder to do quality work. He is talking nonsense making unsafe guns.

 

[M. De Land]

So I see a very nice modern-made custom Leman trade rifle. Builder says he removed the half-**** notch, "as were many originals." When I hunt, I load powder and patched ball, put hammer on half-****, put cap on nipple. That's how I carry it, only need to **** to full **** to shoot. Without a half-**** notch in the tumbler, how do you carry a loaded rifle? 1. loaded but no cap, hammer down 2. capped, hammer down ( YIKES) or 3. capped. hammer at full **** (double YIKES) None of these seem ideal. What am I missing?

A half **** is not a safety and should never be used as one strictly speaking as many a dropped muzzle loader has fired when the half cocked hammer has struck something solid and hard or has been hooked by a limb or brush and has been pulled out of half **** but not to full ****.
I think a steel nipple dome or hammer stall or both is the safest way to carry a capped and charged percussion rifle.

 

[user 34300]

Pulling a hammer off half **** and releasing, without pulling the trigger will result in the sear going back in the half **** notch. No discharge. Yes, a device that fits over the nipple is even better.

Today, if a jury hears that the "safety" was removed and that caused the AD you loose. The maker and the shooter will be crucified in court. The legal term gross negligence refers to an act showing a severe and reckless disregard for the lives or safety of another person. Any lawyer worth his salt will make that stick.

 

[M. De Land]

Pulling a hammer off half **** and releasing, without pulling the trigger will result in the sear going back in the half **** notch. No discharge. Yes, a device that fits over the nipple is even better.

Today, if a jury hears that the "safety" was removed and that caused the AD you loose. The maker and the shooter will be crucified in court. The legal term gross negligence refers to an act showing a severe and reckless disregard for the lives or safety of another person. Any lawyer worth his salt will make that stick.

Well I would say it will usually fall back into the half **** notch but not always particularly with a fly involved and double set triggers. I believe a steel nipple dome with the hammer at rest on top of it is almost fool proof !