Hand built vs production

[Edm]

Have you ever considered using a 1858 Remington, sheriffs model by any chance?

 

[Dialn911]

Have you ever considered using a 1858 Remington, sheriffs model by any chance?

Is this an inside joke?

 

[Edm]

Long thread yesterday where someone here successfully harvested a deer with his.

 

[Felonious]

This is my opinion, but I believe that with modern machining technology, CNC and the like, we've seen the quality of black powder arms go up substantially. 150 years ago a decent gun would have got me something that I would be lucky to hit a person at 200 yards, My cheap CVA can hit a half dollar at that range, how it can go farther than that, I'm just not that good. And that's all with off-the-shelf components and very little practice.

I think the answer to what would be something made on a CNC machine, and then hand fit by a professional who really knows what they're doing. Computerized quality control can make components very precise as well. I think now though it's less about the builder, and more about the quality of the tools used to machine the parts in the first place. In a perfect world, a CNC machine that was 100% accurate with need absolutely no "fitting" because the parts would be exact, The job of smith turns into the job of assembler.

 

[Dialn911]

Is this an inside joke?

Umm..ok
I'm not tracking.

 

[Dialn911]

This is my opinion, but I believe that with modern machining technology, CNC and the like, we've seen the quality of black powder arms go up substantially. 150 years ago a decent gun would have got me something that I would be lucky to hit a person at 200 yards, My cheap CVA can hit a half dollar at that range, how it can go farther than that, I'm just not that good. And that's all with off-the-shelf components and very little practice.

I think the answer to what would be something made on a CNC machine, and then hand fit by a professional who really knows what they're doing. Computerized quality control can make components very precise as well. I think now though it's less about the builder, and more about the quality of the tools used to machine the parts in the first place. In a perfect world, a CNC machine that was 100% accurate with need absolutely no "fitting" because the parts would be exact, The job of smith turns into the job of assembler.

Fair point.
do you think that way in regards to something like a PA Long Rifle, which seems to be more of an art form?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Long thread yesterday where someone here successfully harvested a deer with his.

Last deer I shot I used an uberti 1860 army. I figured I've done it all now and don't hunt anymore

 

[sturmkatze]

Because it's over 200 years old, and it's a museum peace and a unique part of American history, and I would hate to have that compromised by something as stupid as slipping and hitting it on a rock.

Now, if I lived on the frontier and it was the only thing I had to put meat on the table, that's a different story, but I'm not in that situation.

As far as I can tell, there's not many examples of this Maker's work still existing, and it has some unique carving style, so there's no reason to Risk an example of American history, aside from occasionally shooting it.

I also am not a 100% sure if I should be shooting full charge loads in it until I can have it scrutinized heavily.

Having a gun Smith take a peak down the bore and saying it "should be fine" isn't exactly confidence building with 80-100 grain loads.

Guns are made to shot, not hung on the wall and preened over.

 

[John May]

My experience is that the man with one gun most likely has never fired it, is not sure how it works, and does not own any ammunition.

I remember, many moons ago when 'we' were allowed to own/shoot pistols in the UK a local club member used a very old and tatty Smith & Wesson in .45 auto rim. His average for 10 shots was in the mid to high 90's and regardless of how many times we tried no one could get near him. It was his only gun apart from a 9.5mm Mannlicher Hunting Rifle which came out on the very odd occasions, I think this was down to the cost of ammunition which, at the time was very expensive!

 

[Felonious]

Fair point.
do you think that way in regards to something like a PA Long Rifle, which seems to be more of an art form?

If it were me, with a bottomless wallet, I would get a barrel and trigger/lock components that were made on a CNC machine, and have that all put together by someone who is more of an "artist". Best of both worlds, CNC precision, with hand honed components.

 

[54ball]

Yeah I think some of the assumptions about heavy repairs on the stock are just from not high quality photographs, I don't see any evidence of that looking it over but at the very least l, the lock and the bore need to be heavily scrutinized before running heavy loads.

One Maker I had look at it, said they think the lock is original and it wasn't a reconversion, they just think the hammer may have been replaced as part of a repair, But the hammer's geometry could be off.

She's seeing a builder in Prescott Arizona on Tuesday for a second opinion.

All of this is really above my pay grade.
My advice is to be very careful in whose advice you take and be very very careful on who you let work on it.

RCA 145 went for 92K
There’s a Bonewitz with estimates of north of 50K
These are published or by a well known maker.
I know it’s not about the money, it’s about the history.
Still though you may be looking at a rifle worth 10s of thousands if preserved correctly.

I would be very careful on who I let work on it.