handgonne material

[hawkchucker]

Just a quick question for all you gurus. Where are you all getting your brass stock from. I m having no luck finding brass bar stock up here in Mass.

 

[Leonredbeard]

I just walked into the shop of my favorite machinist. He had a couple of pieces lying about on the floor. The 2" diameter 12" long piece I bought cost me $22. $50 with the holes drilled. Another $60 or so to have it profiled. That is part of the reason for all the hacksawing and filing.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

I hope you are using 660. I would avoid any silcone bearing brass or bronze. ENCO carries 660.

CP
I have returned!

 

[Leonredbeard]

Um, ah, claypipe?
My brass is of unknown origin, at least to me. :surrender: I could call my machinist and ask him what it is. But I would be surprised if he knew. :hmm: Now my brass is rather thick and I plan to keep the charges down. :bow: But thanks for the heads up! :shocked2:
volatpluvia

 

[Bookie]

C.P., Glad to see your ugly puss again! I too, have returned. Been tied up with funeral arrangements, seemed like one after another for a few weeks. Leon, when are you planning on a shop visit? I'll be gone sometime in early July. Bookie

 

[Leonredbeard]

Bookamundo,
I should be there no later than the 4th of July. Now I realize that that could interfere with your celebrations. Just let me know. I should leave for home no later than Friday the 6th.

I hope the funeral was not for someone too close!
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Titus]

What type of steel would be appropriate for turning a handgonne?

 

[GunneyG]

1018 CRS is fine. Better stuff is better but not really necessary unless you are planning to take out pterodactyls.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Ah, yes, Claypipe,
I found out my brass is 360. It is touted as easy to machine, easy to work by hand tools and I think malleable. This is from experience, seeing as I was easily able to peen thin strips into my errant saw cuts and make them nearly disappear. There was no mention of silicone in the alloy.
volatpluvia

 

Proper steel for handgonnes would be either 4140 or 12L14. I prefer the 12L14, easier on the lathe and tooling.

CP

 

[Titus]

Will 1018 work for handgonnes? Just askin coz thats what I got for my cannon and I know where to get it at a good price.

 

Will 1018 work for handgonnes? Just askin coz thats what I got for my cannon and I know where to get it at a good price.

The numbering system used for steel is actually one of the few things in the metals industry that makes sense. You can tell the alloy ingredients by the first two digits of that number, and carbon content by the last two digits. For instance, 1018 is simply iron with a carbon content of 0.18%. As the carbon content goes up, strength increases, but the ease of machining and welding decreases.

1018 has a tensile strength of 63,800, a yield stength of 53,700 and a rockwell hardness of 871.

12L14 has a tensile strength of 78,300, a yield stength of 60,200 and a rockwell hardness of 884.

1137 has a tensile strength of 97,000, a yield stength of 57,000 and a Brinell hardness of 197.

4140 has a tensile strength of 95,000, a yield stength of 60,000 and a Brinell hardness of 187.

I know that there are many who have used 1018 for making gonnes and cannons. I, personally prefer to use proven barrel steels such as 1137, 12L14 and 4140.

While 1018 seems a reasonable choice, its little better than wrought iron. And CW cannons were made of iron, but they also had a life expectancy and many failed in the heat of battle. Hence the reason for ordanance steel sleeved barrels today.

What price do you put on safety? And remember, its not just your own personal safety, but the safety of those around you, your children, friends, family and spectators. Barrels made from improper materials may not let loose today, tomorrow or even next year. But soooner or later luck will run out for somebody. Why leave a legacy of pain and suffering or even death for the bargain of a few dollars. Just me.

CP

 

[Titus]

Definitely true Claypipe. :surrender: :thumbsup: Thats one of the reasons I know I can ask these things on MLF, coz you guys know. :bow: :v

 

[4sd4d]

1018 has a tensile strength of 63,800, a yield stength of 53,700 and a rockwell hardness of 871.

12L14 has a tensile strength of 78,300, a yield stength of 60,200 and a rockwell hardness of 884.

CP

Are you sure you are talking about the rockwell scale for 1018?

This confused me because I have tested 1018 and it came to a -10 on the rockwell "c" scale.

I am not finding fault with your numbers, just the scale used to measure them.

 

Those were specs from a supplier's website.

CP

 

[Leonredbeard]

Claypipe,
Did you see my post on the type of brass for my handgonne? If you know anything about it let me know. I wouldn't want it to blow up in my face. Thanks.
volatpluvia

 

360 Brass is comprised of 60-63% copper, 35.5% zinc, .35 iron and 2.5-3.7% lead
58,000 Tensile strength, Yield is low at 45,000

Though this has a higher tensile strength, the higher percentage of zinc makes the material brittle and subject to metal fatigue when stressed by bore pressures over a period time.

620 Bronze is comprised of 88% copper, 8% tin and 4% zinc
45,000 Tensile strength, Yield is low at 21000.

Though this has a lower tensile strength and yield, this metal is more maleable and has give, not as likely to crystalize and fail due to metal fatigue.

Naval gun bronze is a mixture of 88 parts copper, 8 parts tin and 4 parts zinc.
40,000 Tensile strength, Yield is 18,000.

SAE 40, Leaded Red Brass Alloy is comprised of 85% copper, 5% lead, 5 tin and 5% zinc. 36,000 Tensile strength, Yield is 19,000.

Semi-Red Bronze is comprised of 81% copper, 7% lead, 3 tin and 9% zinc.
30,000 Tensile strength, Yield is low at 15,000.

CP

 

[Leonredbeard]

So, Claypipe,
How malleable is 360 brass?

Then what does yield mean as opposed to tensile strength?

volatpluvia

 

[ChrisPer]

If used with smokeless, or for hundreds of shots, there is a risk of a blowup.

So the gonne is historically correct! :redface:

You knew the game was dangerous when you started. Keep the loads low, use a looooooooong string and Kevlar undies and you should be OK.

We had a neighbour build a cannon and lose limbs, entrails and more. But he used waterpipe.

 

So, Claypipe,
How malleable is 360 brass?

Then what does yield mean as opposed to tensile strength?

volatpluvia

Yield Strength: The stress at which material strain changes from elastic deformation to plastic deformation, causing it to deform permanently.

Layman language: All material has a certain amount of elasticity, in other words, give or flex. When a bullet or ball goes down the bore of a barrel, it is much like a snake swallowing an egg. The gas pressures behind the bullet/ball cause the barrel to expand and as the bullet/ball moves down the bore, the barrel contracts. However, if there is a stoppage, the barrel bulges, that is the point of yield, where the metal is permanently deformed.

The tensile strength of a material is the maximum amount of stress that it can be subjected to before catastrophic failure.

In other words, this is where the barrel either splits or is blown to pieces.

Some metals can experience great deformity before reaching catastrophic failure. The greater the distance between yield and tensile, the safer the steel.

1018 = 9,300
12L14 = 18,100
1137 = 40,000
4140 = 35,000

With soft metals such as brass, bronze and copper, the main number to watch is the yield. These are soft metals and are easier to deform than steel. To harden these metals, other metals are added to the mix. This makes an alloy. Small amounts of added metals can either harden or soften these soft metals, too much over does it. And just like over hardening steel, it becomes brittle and can shatter not unlike glass. With 360 what concerns me is the high amount of zinc. 360 brass is not very malleable. Zinc breaks easily with repeated stress. Metal fatigue in a firearm is not a good thing.

360 = 13,000
620 = 24,000

Are we totally confused now?

CP