I am having problems with most or all of my sidehammer guns. Rifles include CVA, Traditions, TC, calibers .32, .36,. and .54. I have purchased scrapers for each cal. Small cal rifles are using Pyro P(FFF). .54 with Pyro RS and T7(FF). The hammer seems to be falling freely and I have used several makes of #11 caps. Some are haging up after 5 shots. I"ll take nipple and screw off to clean but not much there. These rifles are all using Borebutter. Am I clogging the bottom of bore with BB?
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Hangfires and misfires...
- Thread starter sduve
- Start date
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On the wild chanch that I'll be lucky, I'll mention some things that helped another shooter last week.
Before you load the first load, fire at least 2 caps on the nipple, then proceed to load. This blows anything that is in the hole connecting the barrel to the nipple out of the hole.
Each time you load, make sure the fired cap is NOT on the nipple, and PUT THE HAMMER ON HALF COCK. This assures a clear passage for the air which is trapped under the ball/patch to escape thru as you ram the ball/patch down.
It will blow some of the loose powder from your new charge into the hole that connects the barrel with the nipple. It often blows the powder right up under the nipple which makes for instantanious ignition.
Doing this seems to be more important if your using any of the "new" black powder substitutes. Most (or all) of them have higher flash points than good old black powder so some rifles get fussy about this process being done.
Before you load the first load, fire at least 2 caps on the nipple, then proceed to load. This blows anything that is in the hole connecting the barrel to the nipple out of the hole.
Each time you load, make sure the fired cap is NOT on the nipple, and PUT THE HAMMER ON HALF COCK. This assures a clear passage for the air which is trapped under the ball/patch to escape thru as you ram the ball/patch down.
It will blow some of the loose powder from your new charge into the hole that connects the barrel with the nipple. It often blows the powder right up under the nipple which makes for instantanious ignition.
Doing this seems to be more important if your using any of the "new" black powder substitutes. Most (or all) of them have higher flash points than good old black powder so some rifles get fussy about this process being done.
If you are swabbing the bore between shots you may be pushing crud down into the nipple area and that could be causing your problem. If you do this you may want to snap a cap each time you reload, it costs more however. You can get one of the hot nipples or even a musket nipple threaded to fit on a #11 type nipple treads. You can hold the gun sidelock down and gently tap that area to induce some powder from the bore into the drum. If you are having trouble every fifth shot there is something definately wrong. You need to review your whole procedure. If you are still having trouble let someone know. ::
By this I hope you mean the hammer is not binding up and hitting with full force...
If not, there's a problem...
Perhaps the oil from the barrel is draining into the breech/nipple area...
When you are done cleaning it, do you stand it up???
This would cause any oils to run down towards the nipple...
I lay mine flat for a while until everything is good and dry...
[/quote]Perhaps the oil from the barrel is draining into the breech/nipple area...
When you are done cleaning it, do you stand it up???
This would cause any oils to run down towards the nipple...
I lay mine flat for a while until everything is good and dry... [/quote]
I store jezabel barrel down also if i plan on using her soon. Before i hunt, i clean the oil out and fire 2 or 3 caps at a feather or dirt. Then I remove that nipple and replace with a clean one. i have 2 nipples and the one that i do not test fire goes on for hunting. No misfires yet. Honest :says:
When you are done cleaning it, do you stand it up???
This would cause any oils to run down towards the nipple...
I lay mine flat for a while until everything is good and dry... [/quote]
I store jezabel barrel down also if i plan on using her soon. Before i hunt, i clean the oil out and fire 2 or 3 caps at a feather or dirt. Then I remove that nipple and replace with a clean one. i have 2 nipples and the one that i do not test fire goes on for hunting. No misfires yet. Honest :says:
Lessee. In addition to the above.
Is the nipple damaged? The rim chipped or mashed? If so, replace. Unlikely all guns would be in this shape. :hmm:
Are you using too much lube? Just enough to fill the weave of the patch but not piled on in obvious heaps and swirls. Rub it in with your thumb and finger or scrape it off. Pre-lubed patches should have the correct amount.
Make a nipple pick outy of a small paperclip. Poke the nipple between shots (before adding powder but after wiping).
If you are wiping between shots, are you using a damp patch or a sopping wet patch ? Too much solvent is too much. You can't over saliva a patch with just your tongue (Stumpy's Law of Self-Limiting Nausea).
Is the nipple damaged? The rim chipped or mashed? If so, replace. Unlikely all guns would be in this shape. :hmm:
Are you using too much lube? Just enough to fill the weave of the patch but not piled on in obvious heaps and swirls. Rub it in with your thumb and finger or scrape it off. Pre-lubed patches should have the correct amount.
Make a nipple pick outy of a small paperclip. Poke the nipple between shots (before adding powder but after wiping).
If you are wiping between shots, are you using a damp patch
or a sopping wet patch ? Too much solvent is too much. You can't over saliva a patch with just your tongue (Stumpy's Law of Self-Limiting Nausea).I used to have similar problems with some of my cap locks. The first thing I do before loading is take some isopropyl or denatured alcohol, dampen a patch and mop out the bore. I then put a dry patch on and mop the bore. Leave the patch and jag in the bottom of the breech now, and pop two caps. Pull the jag and look at it. The end will shot how much spark you are getting through the nipple.
The alcohol swab will remove any oils and crud from the bore as well as water and it will dry itself out almost at once. Plus, alcohol burns on its own.
Now that you know you have a good fire path, load the rifle like normal. If you have to swab during the shooting session, I use only pure alcohol in the sidelocks for swabbing. I only use a mixture of alcohol in my inlines since they get more fire into the breech.
Not wanting to start anything with this comment since it is only :imo: but use the bore butter as a patch lube and noting else. There are better patch lubes out there. I am not someone who pushes the use of bore butter other then to lube conical bullets. Stumpkiller's moosemilk reciepe is the best patch lube I have ever shot with. It will be the only one that I use from now on.
If your still getting misfires then replace the nipple with a Hot shot nipple and see if that does not make a difference. If this is the factory nipple that could be your problem right there.. I never had any luck with a factory nipple except the ones from Thompson Center. Then someone told me they were a Uncle Mike's hot shot nipple which would explain why I had no problems with them.
The alcohol swab will remove any oils and crud from the bore as well as water and it will dry itself out almost at once. Plus, alcohol burns on its own.
Now that you know you have a good fire path, load the rifle like normal. If you have to swab during the shooting session, I use only pure alcohol in the sidelocks for swabbing. I only use a mixture of alcohol in my inlines since they get more fire into the breech.
Not wanting to start anything with this comment since it is only :imo: but use the bore butter as a patch lube and noting else. There are better patch lubes out there. I am not someone who pushes the use of bore butter other then to lube conical bullets. Stumpkiller's moosemilk reciepe is the best patch lube I have ever shot with. It will be the only one that I use from now on.
If your still getting misfires then replace the nipple with a Hot shot nipple and see if that does not make a difference. If this is the factory nipple that could be your problem right there.. I never had any luck with a factory nipple except the ones from Thompson Center. Then someone told me they were a Uncle Mike's hot shot nipple which would explain why I had no problems with them.
alpenliter
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sduve,
I am relativlely new to this sport and this is my first post here. But here goes. Being new, I did not know that on my GPR that the breech plug was removable. I was at a shoot and was continuing to get misfires. I would clean and then after only a few shots it would misfire again. Someone mentioned to me about taking the breech plug out.
When I got home I removed the barrel, and then the breech plug. The bottom was plugged with crud. Every time I ran a cleaning patch down it just put more liquid into the crud, which then transfered to the powder, creating a problem with ignition. Well, I cleaned that thing real good, and do everytime I come home now. I am not having anymore problems at all. You may want to pull the plug and give it a look see. I know you said you have a scraper, but maybe it is just not doing the job.
I am relativlely new to this sport and this is my first post here. But here goes. Being new, I did not know that on my GPR that the breech plug was removable. I was at a shoot and was continuing to get misfires. I would clean and then after only a few shots it would misfire again. Someone mentioned to me about taking the breech plug out.
When I got home I removed the barrel, and then the breech plug. The bottom was plugged with crud. Every time I ran a cleaning patch down it just put more liquid into the crud, which then transfered to the powder, creating a problem with ignition. Well, I cleaned that thing real good, and do everytime I come home now. I am not having anymore problems at all. You may want to pull the plug and give it a look see. I know you said you have a scraper, but maybe it is just not doing the job.
I'm not much of a fan of Pyrodex.Higher ignition temp is required.If everything is perfect you'll get ignition pretty well.I use Goex for all my rifles.Shoot, swab ,1 damp, 1 dry ,load with the hammer off the nipple.cap and fire.When pyrodex came out I tried it and was not impressed.I've have heard of improvements being made though?Keep at it and you will find the solution.Loading with the hammer off the nipple could be a key?Noah :m2c:
For precussion rifles which use a side drum which the nipple is screwed into, there is another trick which can almost always eliminate the dreaded "missfire".
The idea behind this is based on two ideas.
First, (as mentioned above) you want the loose powder to blow into the hole which connects the bore with the nipple.
Second, when the cap fires, the flame will travel deeper down the hole connecting the nipple with the bore if it doesn't have to be blowing into a sealed chamber.
These two ideas make the answer easy to understand. You drill a hole between the nipple and the bore.
My 3rd BP rifle was a CVA Hawken. It used a drum on the side of the barrel for the nipple to screw into, and the drum had a hole down the middle into the barrel. This is pritty much standard proceedure for many precussion guns.
Using a 1/16 inch diameter drill, I drilled a hole thru one wall of the drum until it hit the drums center hole.
This hole was pointed forward and upward at about a 45 degree angle from the barrels centerline, and it was located about 3/32 (.093) inch from the side of the barrel flat.
If you try this, be sure to use a good center punch to mark the location or the drill will "walk" all over the place.
Does this new hole effect velocity?--- Sure it does, but not much more than the vent hole does on a flintlock.
Should I add extra powder to make up for the lost gas?---I wouldn't unless you see a marked change in the point of impact on the target. Then maybe less than 5 grains more.
I really don't think you'll see much change.
Is this new hole dangerous?---Not unless you put your finger over it when your firing the gun (not recommended). Notice that the new hole is pointed forward and up, not backwards at the shooter.
Does the precussion cap fragment and blow off like it did before?--- Sometimes it will blow off. Often, the cap will fragment just from the explosion of the priming powder. Expect to have to pry off a cap now and then.
Does it really help? ---As I recall, even loading Pyrodex with the nipple clear and the hammer at half cock, I had about 10% missfires. I even had missfires with black powder. After doing this rework to the drum, that dropped to less than 2% with Pyrodex and none with black powder. I attributed most of those to oil residue in the drum on the first shot of the day.
The idea behind this is based on two ideas.
First, (as mentioned above) you want the loose powder to blow into the hole which connects the bore with the nipple.
Second, when the cap fires, the flame will travel deeper down the hole connecting the nipple with the bore if it doesn't have to be blowing into a sealed chamber.
These two ideas make the answer easy to understand. You drill a hole between the nipple and the bore.
My 3rd BP rifle was a CVA Hawken. It used a drum on the side of the barrel for the nipple to screw into, and the drum had a hole down the middle into the barrel. This is pritty much standard proceedure for many precussion guns.
Using a 1/16 inch diameter drill, I drilled a hole thru one wall of the drum until it hit the drums center hole.
This hole was pointed forward and upward at about a 45 degree angle from the barrels centerline, and it was located about 3/32 (.093) inch from the side of the barrel flat.
If you try this, be sure to use a good center punch to mark the location or the drill will "walk" all over the place.
Does this new hole effect velocity?--- Sure it does, but not much more than the vent hole does on a flintlock.
Should I add extra powder to make up for the lost gas?---I wouldn't unless you see a marked change in the point of impact on the target. Then maybe less than 5 grains more.
I really don't think you'll see much change.
Is this new hole dangerous?---Not unless you put your finger over it when your firing the gun (not recommended). Notice that the new hole is pointed forward and up, not backwards at the shooter.
Does the precussion cap fragment and blow off like it did before?--- Sometimes it will blow off. Often, the cap will fragment just from the explosion of the priming powder. Expect to have to pry off a cap now and then.
Does it really help? ---As I recall, even loading Pyrodex with the nipple clear and the hammer at half cock, I had about 10% missfires. I even had missfires with black powder. After doing this rework to the drum, that dropped to less than 2% with Pyrodex and none with black powder. I attributed most of those to oil residue in the drum on the first shot of the day.
This procedure is explained in the back of the Dixie Black Powder catalog in the General Information section.
