Hawken Building

[TeutonicHeathen]

I was woundering if there is a book or any info on how to build hawken rifles? I have been on track of the wolfs website and see alot of parts and would like to build my own. What is the difficulty level? I have built AR's and a p38 pistol also converted a 1858 remington revolver to cartridge so I think I should be able to build a Hawken. Any info or books you could point me to for a beginner?

 

[Bill Hall]

The only "how-to" tutorial I've come across is a video by Hershal House called Building the Hawken Rifle. I think the video could have been better, as it seems like they tried to cram too much info into a two hour vhs video tape, then edited to make it fit the time limit. You need to somewhat guess what he's doing, especially towards the end of the video, because some of the explanation just isn't there. But it really helped me a lot, and I recommend it. It's just not the "end all" video on the subject. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[LaBonte]

IMO the best way to build a GOOD Hawken copy if you never have built one, is to get one of Don Stith's "kits". http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

The parts are absolutely correct (something that cannot be said of most other "kits" which are mostly a mish mash of parts - some are based on original Hawken parts but others are not) since they are taken directly from originals, some of which Don owns, the instructions included are first rate, and Don is always willing to answer questions that WILL pop up.
Hawkens, while appearing simple can be one of the most difficult builds to get right.
Yes his kits are more expensive, but they are "right" plus you get the benefit of Don's huge store of knowledge regarding original Hawkens...
of course it all depends on how "right" you want to be........

 

[ebiggs1]

Building a Hawken from a pile of parts if not for the faint of heart. It is not easy and half stock guns are more difficult than full stock rifles to build.
I have been a cabinet maker sine I was old enough to follow my grandpa around. Way too many years to mention! I have made three rifles from scratch and am not satisfied with any of them. I did keep the last one as is but I destroyed the first one and have redone the second one several times.
Not trying to talk you out of it but be forewarned. You just may be the greatest and here is one guy that is hoping you are. Go for it, ya never know till you try.

 

[Bill Hall]

Hawkens, while appearing simple can be one of the most difficult builds to get right.

Oooooh yes! Inletting the barrel is simple, but the next step, inletting the tang, makes or breaks the whole architecture of the rifle. You got to have the curve of the top of the wrist perfect, or nothing is correct after that, and that's difficult to do when you're working with a blank piece of wood.

I've never built from any kind of kit, but Labonte's suggestion sounds real good for a first time builder, especially if you want to tackle a Hawken. If you go to Don Stith's website, you can see that he knows Hawkens and how to put them together (I go there to copy his work, shhh). If you try to build a genuine Hawken on your first try, even with photos sitting right in front of you, you're going to end up with a real nice common "plains rifle", like some of my first attempts. :surrender: Not bad looking rifles, but not Hawkens.

Just my opinion. Good luck with your build. Bill

 

[Idaho Ron]

Accura glass will help if the tang is too deep. Ron

 

I don't have any books on the subject, but there are a number out there, but I do have a set of full size blueprints for bot a full stock and half stock Hawken rifle. If you want something like that, mine are available, PM me for price.
Mark

 

[Bill Hall]

LOL Ron, that's not quite what I was trying to explain. What I meant was, very early in the build you need to have everything laid out to get the correct architecture. The barrel is the first step, but then the next step is inletting the tang. You can't inlet the tang until you get the profile of the wrist cut and perfect, because that wrist profile sets up the relationship of all the lines of the entire rifle. You can pick any one feature, i.e., comb of the butt, angle of buttplate, placement of the lock, and they will also dictate the shape and angle of the other features, if it is supposed to look like a Hawken. It's just the tang naturally comes before the rest, so the top of the wrist must be correct, or the other lines will be incorrect.

If the tang were straight, instead of hourglass shaped, this wouldn't be so much of a challenge. If you inlet tang, and later want to change the wrist profile, you'll probably need to re-shape the curve of the tang, which will make it longer or shorter, so the hourglass shape can leave gaps where previously cut in. It's gotta be right the first time.

Hope this makes sense. Bill

 

[Dave K]

It isn't always just putting a gun together and making sure the parts fit, it is the architecture. You can look at some guns that are supposed to be copies of of some school of build, but really? They just look like something that will shoot, but not look the gun that the builder/owner intended. You really need to study the architecture. Don't study someones else's interpretation, but study the pictures and measurements of the real deal. JMHO

 

[DEWB]

I built a Don Stith Sam Hawken kit a couple of years ago. The kits are really good as far as parts and the quality of wood but it wasn't an easy build by no means. I had some help to get started on it to get everything lined up right. Barrels are tapered like alot of the originals and the guys are right about the tang being tricky. But once you get the barrel and tang in you have to get the lock in the right spot in order to get the hammer to align correctly. I used a davis lock and it doesn't have a cut out for the snail. You have to figure out the right spot to file the notch for the snail or the hammer won't hit the nipple right. One way to do this is make a cardboard cutout of the lockplate with a hole so you can mount the hammer on the cardboard lockplate. Then you can put it on the stock and check the alignment with the hammer and the nipple before you inlet the lock. Dons kits are only partially inlet for some of the parts. You also have to mount a rib, solder on the timbles make dovetails for the sights and soforth. They have a very long triggerplate that you have to inlet in the right spot for the triggers to work right. I am not trying to discourage you or anyone else from building one. It was my 3rd rifle from a pre-carve kit and it was challenging but I ended up with a nice rifle that shoots really well. Good luck on what ever you do. Dew

 

[Vaino]

Below are 2 pics of a LHed Stith S.Hawken which I built a few years ago. The bbl had to be breeched, the forward end boss of the TG had to be threaded, because the bbl is tapered, the under rib had to be filed to match the taper and along w/ fitting the hooked breech, these and all the other operations of building a Hawken do lend themselves to a more difficult build than a LR.

Don was very helpful when I had questions concerning the stock contour behind the breech and even sent me pics of originals to help w/ his explanation.

Quality, HC parts set and Don's expert advice to boot....can't hardly go wrong w/ that.....Fred

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

That is a beautiful gun. SO I coudent just say, go to track of the wolf and buy a pre inlet stock and all the custom hardware I want and assemble it?

 

[DEWB]

I can't comment on a track of the wolf kit because I havn't built one but I'm pretty sure you,ll still have to do many of the operations mentioned above. I'm sure there is someone on here who has built one. Hopefully they will chime in. Dew

 

[DEWB]

Fred,that is one nice Hawken. And you are right about Don being helpful with answering questions. Great kits and a great guy.Dew

 

[Vaino]

TOW's Hawken parts set and precarve requires quite a bit of work...they definitely are not a "kit". Below is a Pecatonica River Hawken very similar to TOW's......Fred

 

[izzyjoe]

i built a CVA hawken kit rifle back in the spring, and it was a little challenging. i know, the CVA, T/C, hawken are not correct to the originals, and i'm not fond of the brass hardware. but to be honest if i had to do it all over again, i would buy a Lyman GPR in kit form and build it my way. cause they are the closest to being correct, for the money.

 

[sc45-70]

Yes you can but it's not quite that simple!

I've built several Hawken rifles with TOTW parts.

On the pre inlet Hawken stocks all of the inlet openings will be slightly smaller than the parts that go into the inlets! You will have to remove wood to get all parts to fit.

You will have to drill all the holes where holes need to be.

You will also have to drill and tap the metal parts and counter sink some of the holes for the tapered heads of the screws. None of the metal parts (except the lock) will have any holes drilled or located, and the lock bolt hole will have to be located,drilled and tapped.

You will have to remove wood from the rear of the barrel channel to square it and may have to move the barrel rearward so the hammer will hit the nipple. You will also have to inlet the breech plug and tang and get them to fit together snuggly which can be quite tricky and time consuming.

You will have to remove wood where the barrel keepers (wedges) go through the stock and make sure they go through the under lugs.

The breech plug will have to be fit to the barrel, the under lugs will have to be installed, the sight dove tails will have to be cut and the under rib will have to be attached to the barrel (soldered or screwed) after the ram rod pipes are soldered to it.

You will have to fit all the metal parts to the wood and fit all the metal to metal parts together.

As you can see it's not just buying the parts and putting them together, all parts have to be pricisely hand fit.

When everything is fit together then you can shape and finish the stock and metal.

Expect to spend over 100 hours on a Hawken to do it right as they are one of the most difficult muzzleloading rifles to build!

I hope this doesn't scare you away from building one!

SC45-70

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

Ok lmao im going to pass on a hawken build right now. It sounds a little advance for me yet. I would like a Hawken like the Pedersoli Rocky mountain but instead of case hardened hardware I want Iron with the browned barrel. And instead of a percussian I would like flintlock.

 

[DEWB]

FWIW a flint would be a little easier to build than a caplock cause you could do it with a regular breech plug and skip the patent breech. And you may already know this but there are not any known original Hawken flint mountain rifles in existance. But there are some that are beleived to have been converted from flint. I think they are all fullstocks. I would like to get a fullstock Hawken in a flint myself. Dew

 

[Lock Nut]

Just finished this one. It's a collection of parts and pieces from 4 different suppliers. Not an exact replica but a more "authentic looking" 50 cal. Hawken.

(Sorry, I'm having major issues trying to post pics on this site)