Hawken Rifles, What's All The Hoopla?!

[Rock Home Isle]

Well, if a Hawken is what it is, what would be considered to be the ultimate hunting rifle of this same class? View attachment 161947

This is a good thread.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/your-ideal-hunting-muzzleloader.150413/

 

[Dispatch]

There is no such animal. Each individual is drawn to their favorite of form and function. It depends on what time period your most fond of, what size game your after, and most importantly, how big your wallet is.

That's why I'm asking. Don't the same rifles mentioned carry across many time periods?

I was meaning a most popular model as the Kentucky rifle was...

 

[Herb]

Rock Home Isle, I like your rifles. I also like shorter and lighter rifles. At top is my LAST copy of the Bridger Hawken, it weighs 11 1/4 pounds, like the original shown in my photo at left. I can barely lift it onto my bench, and cannot shoot it off-hand. Next is my first copy, with a two-inch shorter GRRW one and 1/4" barrel (what I had). It weighs 10 1/4 pounds. I shot it a few thousand times but can no longer, at age 89, shoot it off-hand. The next two are Kit Carson Hawken copies, except I have the 31 1/8" barrels in 15/16 .54 caliber. I think they weigh about 9 pounds, I don't remember. I can still shoot these off-hand, in fact the top one with an H&H barrel is what I killed that mule deer buck with, one shot off-hand at 90 yards.

 

[granth]

I think the design of the Hawken rifle is what made it so popular. Compared to small caliber target rifles and large caliber military muskets, Hawken rifles strike a perfect balance between the two IMO.

 

[DuncNZ]

I think the romance of the Hawken in literature , films and TV is well document already on this thread.
The Hawken rifles came to the Mountain Men late in the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade , mainly they were taken West with pioneers and explorers on horseback and in wagons .
The appeal of the Hawken at the time was, it was strong enough to sustain some abuse ,it could handle large charges of powder , it was usually made in calibers which were suitable to kill the largest animals on the Continent , Bison and Grizzly Bears , but it could be loaded to a lower power for game such as Mule Deer and antelope .
Most of the famous Mountain Men who's Hawken rifles are still in existence owned them as their last muzzle loaders , not their first by any means .
In other words the Hawken rifle was well made, reliable and accurate .The half stock was/is less prone to damage and breakage than a full stock rifle .
It was made for a purpose which it served very well
It was purchased by the few who could afford them , the full stock Hawken's cost less than the half stock because there was no need to fit an under barrel rib and wood was less expensive than iron in those days , yet there are very few examples of full stock Hawken's in existence today .
Most of all it is a darn good looking rifle .
There are now more "Hawken's" than were ever made by the Hawken family .

 

[Mark E. Prickett]

Rock Home Isle, I like your rifles. I also like shorter and lighter rifles. At top is my LAST copy of the Bridger Hawken, it weighs 11 1/4 pounds, like the original shown in my photo at left. I can barely lift it onto my bench, and cannot shoot it off-hand. Next is my first copy, with a two-inch shorter GRRW one and 1/4" barrel (what I had). It weighs 10 1/4 pounds. I shot it a few thousand times but can no longer, at age 89, shoot it off-hand. The next two are Kit Carson Hawken copies, except I have the 31 1/8" barrels in 15/16 .54 caliber. I think they weigh about 9 pounds, I don't remember. I can still shoot these off-hand, in fact the top one with an H&H barrel is what I killed that mule deer buck with, one shot off-hand at 90 yards.View attachment 161952

Thanks for being an inspiration.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Browning made a really good one and the Lyman GPR is close. Since Hawken's were hand made there are no 2 that are exactly alike.

well, the ones I have seen sure look like a Hawken to me!

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Rock Home Isle, I like your rifles. I also like shorter and lighter rifles. At top is my LAST copy of the Bridger Hawken, it weighs 11 1/4 pounds, like the original shown in my photo at left. I can barely lift it onto my bench, and cannot shoot it off-hand. Next is my first copy, with a two-inch shorter GRRW one and 1/4" barrel (what I had). It weighs 10 1/4 pounds. I shot it a few thousand times but can no longer, at age 89, shoot it off-hand. The next two are Kit Carson Hawken copies, except I have the 31 1/8" barrels in 15/16 .54 caliber. I think they weigh about 9 pounds, I don't remember. I can still shoot these off-hand, in fact the top one with an H&H barrel is what I killed that mule deer buck with, one shot off-hand at 90 yards.View attachment 161952

Very nice rifles

 

[Whitworth]

Once fired it makes a sturdier club than a Kentucky.

 

[gunsmithgreg]

Hawken is Hollywood Hype IMHO

Hawken is a brand name starting in the 1820's and continuing today. Like Colt, Winchester, etc.

 

[Texas Gil]

I must admit I prefer rifles that weigh less than 8 lbs. But when hunting with my 10 lb Sharon 54 cal cap lock “Hawken” replica and get that buck I really get to know what it was like back in 1850. You get to appreciate why these sturdy rifles were built and the extra weight didn’t even matter.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Hawken is a brand name starting in the 1820's and continuing today. Like Colt, Winchester, etc.

Yes, but it was also a particular style that was associated with that brand name!

 

[Herb]

Me shooting a lighter Carson Hawken in one of Terry's matches. I think I won it.

 

[HighUintas]

I have two Lyman GPR's a Capper and A Flinter I'm building now. They are fine rifles. If i do my part, the flinter will be every bit as nice as my capper!!

Very pretty wood!!

I certainly know their great reputation for being great shooters. I wish I had one!!

My "ok" comment was only on Hawken styling accuracy

 

[JGH45]

I always wanted a Browning Plains rifle , I finally got my hands one, a new .54 , There is no way that rifle was a Hawken copy , It was intended to be a copy of the first rifle built by J M Browning and was advertised as such , The rams head on the breach put me off , the fittings looked and felt wrong to me , there was something almost artificial about their manufacture and finish . The stock was not up to my expectations , The whole thing had a feel that it was entirely machine made and had not been touched by humans , maybe it is just me but I did not like it .

The Jonathan Browning Mountain rifle is not a copy of the first rifle built by John Moses Browning. His real first gun was the single shot 1878 and was a cartridge gun. Jonathan Browning, John M. Browning's father, was also a gunsmith and had his own designs and inventions, but not a Hawken style gun. The Jonathan Browning Mountain rifle is certainly not an exact copy of the original Hawken but is close in many respects. And yes it is a pretty much "machine made" gun; hand making a gun like the Hawken brothers did is completely impractical for a commercial success for a company like Browning. You certainly don't have to like it, but I and many others really the Jonathan Browning Mountain rifle. Obviously it was not liked by enough people because Browning only offered it for sale for about 10 years and then discontinued it.

 

[JGH45]

The Browning is not a Hawken Copy , It is intended to be a copy of the first rifle J M Browning made . Browning has only made replicas of rifles designed by Browning and not other designers or manufacturers .

Sorry but you are wrong on that. The Jonathan Browning Mountain rifle is a copy of the Hawken style rifles. John Moses Browning's first rifle was the 1878 single shot cartridge rifle.

 

[frankie]

The history and feel

 

[TDM]

Dang...

 

[tenngun]

The Hawken rifle as we know it is not a true fur trade gun. It came along well after the 1820-1835 time frame, which was the peak time for the fur trade. I have always called it a ”pioneering rifle” and did serve well as the west was opened up. First, the percussion gun was not practical when the closest source of caps was 1,500 miles east. A flint gun was never without some source of sparking material. I maintain flint guns were preferred in the far west long after percussion dominated the market in the east. A careful reading of Ruxton’s “Life In The Far West” will confirm flint guns well into the late ‘40’s. Granted, the Hawken shop was in business during the later fur trade but their output was minuscule compared to the number of trappers heading to the plains and Rockies. And remember, most of the men were poor and carried just about anything they could get their hands on.

I have owned a very close copy of a late slant breech .54 Hawken for 40 years and shot a number of mule deer with it. I never really liked it—it is ungainly, balances like a lead pipe, and kicks like a mule with the narrow crescent buttplate. It doesn’t even compare with some of my big bore earlier flint rifles for comfort and all around efficiency.

All the above is just my humble,opinion.

I think I would have to disagree with you on some points
The MM were not poor guys with what ever they had.
They were employees and often issued a pretty fine rifle. Most of these came out of Pennsylvania.
Although not the primary gun, the ‘mountain mans choice, a few did get to rendezvous.
Jed smith had one, classic half stock cap gun, in 1831, Ashley had one in ‘25, a .66 caliber.
Rocky Mountain and American Fur were buying Hawken s all through the mountain man era.
We certainly overblew them in the ‘70s, then the pendulum swung opposite. In truth they weren’t THE Mountain man gun, but a Mm gun
Caps were flowing west to the first voo. Although flint would stay popular up till the adoption of breechloaders, caps were all over.
MM rarely tried to use a rock off the ground. And even Indians who had made flint tools since coming to America they still bought flint for their guns.
A thousand caps fit in a hand, but flint for a thousand shots was more bulky. Mm and the companies seemed to have been pretty jealous of packed volume and weight.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have looked at a Browning rifle that was modeled on a Hawken and I have to disagree with many of the postings that it is not a good copy. I think it is an excellent copy and but for minor details that most people could care less about, if you hung it on the wall next to an original it would be difficult for 95% of people to know the difference. When you need a micrometer to measure barrel width, and stock dimensions, angles etc, you might as well argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, IMHO .Every Hawken made was different, since they were hand made. They followed a particular theme in their style, that's all. Hooked breech, slant breech, long tang, long trigger plate, Heavy barrel ,light barrel, full stock, half stock, none were the same etc. If that Browning rifle had been in S Hawken's original shop , it would have sold in NY min! (IMHO) I wish I had been there with a wagon full of Lyman GPR.s, I would of been a happy sales person.!