Hawken side plate?

[holzwurm]

Building a full stock Hawken 50 for a gift to an old battle buddy. I'd be interested in any images of original St louis style side plates other than that tear drop washer used. Just searching for something more stylish and appropriate. Tried the Smithsonian but cant get past their web site to search. Never heard back from the Cody museum where I know there is an original on display. Thanks.

Holzwurm

 

[FishDFly]

Try the Hawken Shop or maybe Track Of the Wolf.

 

[rich pierce]

I’m not sure you can get both; stylish and more appropriate. As the teardrop was most common, it is the most appropriate, even if not considered stylish. Since J&S and S Hawken rifles lacked front lock bolts, the washer type was adequate and a more elaborate sideplate was unnecessary, not only for the Hawken brothers but also many other makers. There are many good books available for anyone wanting to base a build on originals.

 

[holzwurm]

Gentleman:
Have spent several hours on the web searching for Hawken bits and pieces. Lots out there if you can find it. Saw many originals and read a lot about this and that. Interestingly, came across an original full stock which had a machine screw through the lock plate (looked like about a 5-40 {?} countersunk almost hidden under the cock arm) threaded into the side of the breech tang holding the lock in place rather than the through bolt from the side plate. Saw several originals having those slotted under barrel wedge escutcheons in a variety of creative and attractive shapes. Answered my query. Thank you all for your interest

 

[deerstalkert]

maybe you could post links to the searches you did? may help others that are interested save some time.

 

[holzwurm]

Here is on w/lots of pictures

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...C&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1#imgrc=0X0BEh8tTs2AjM

 

[deerstalkert]

thank you.

 

[holzwurm]

This one too.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=22be46f7219d23069ef5eb3212fee6fc&action=view

 

[Dphar1950]

Gentleman:
Have spent several hours on the web searching for Hawken bits and pieces. Lots out there if you can find it. Saw many originals and read a lot about this and that. Interestingly, came across an original full stock which had a machine screw through the lock plate (looked like about a 5-40 {?} countersunk almost hidden under the cock arm) threaded into the side of the breech tang holding the lock in place rather than the through bolt from the side plate. Saw several originals having those slotted under barrel wedge escutcheons in a variety of creative and attractive shapes. Answered my query. Thank you all for your interest

The only Hawken I know of with this feature, screw into the standing breech, is the half stocked Atchison rifle. All silver mounted with silver and mother of pearl inlays. Dated 1836. Would like links to the sites you found if possible. The early rifles were less standardized that the mid-1840s onward guns. They were also often a little trimmer. The shaping of the stock and small details are more important that escutcheons and such. And the Atchinson rifle is very atypical as shown here. But the basic stock design is what I call a Jacob rifle. Like the Petersen rifle and the ETC rifle in Helena, MT which is shown in the last two photos

 

[holzwurm]

the heavily embellished rifle you picture, 2d from top, is the one where I spotted that screw. A elegant detail I will add to my next rifle (early Hawken FS). At the moment I'm trying to get my head around the problem of making a hinge for the PB door out of a heavier steel plate than the ones you can order from Track/etc.. Thank you

Also, the observation about the cheek shapes on earlier guns being non standard has been helpful.

 

[Dphar1950]

the heavily embellished rifle you picture, 2d from top, is the one where I spotted that screw. A elegant detail I will add to my next rifle (early Hawken FS). At the moment I'm trying to get my head around the problem of making a hinge for the PB door out of a heavier steel plate than the ones you can order from Track/etc.. Thank you

Also, the observation about the cheek shapes on earlier guns being non standard has been helpful.

the heavily embellished rifle you picture, 2d from top, is the one where I spotted that screw. A elegant detail I will add to my next rifle (early Hawken FS). At the moment I'm trying to get my head around the problem of making a hinge for the PB door out of a heavier steel plate than the ones you can order from Track/etc.. Thank you

Also, the observation about the cheek shapes on earlier guns being non standard has been helpful.

The Atchison rifle has a modified teardrop type inlay on the off side where the lock bolt would enter. IIRC its mother of pearl. The ETC rifle and the rifle owned by Archie Petersen at the time John Baird described it have continuations of the cheekpiece and accent line of ETC rifle that run around the comb ala relief carved Kentuckians.

 

[Dphar1950]

Building a full stock Hawken 50 for a gift to an old battle buddy. I'd be interested in any images of original St louis style side plates other than that tear drop washer used. Just searching for something more stylish and appropriate. Tried the Smithsonian but cant get past their web site to search. Never heard back from the Cody museum where I know there is an original on display. Thanks.

Holzwurm

Easiest is to use the teardrop then add and inlay for decoration. The only one I can think of offhand is the plate on the Modena Hawken. But remember this rifle has had the barrel and lock replaces by Sam Hawken during its service life. While there are no hard fast rules for the Hawken mountain rifle the rear drop lock bolt washer is about as standard as it gets dating to the earliest known rifle to the last. While the shape varies a little its still the same basic design.
This is the inlay on the Atchison rifle, sorry its the only one I could find, its from and auction site. I took some photos of it when it was in teh Cody Firearms Museum but cannot locate the files right now. Why they even put it there is beyond me unless its to cover something. Or habit.

 

[Dphar1950]

If you are going to build a Hawken be careful with the shaping, especially the lock panels and transition to the entry pipe and forend cap on the 1/2 stocked guns. This is more important than the lock bolt escutcheon shape. Chapter 9 of Baird’s “Hawken Rifles..” has some relatively unworn guns. You should have this book before stocking a “Hawken”. Below is a good modern example, though this is not a Hawken Mtn rifle its inspired by a heavy S Hawken “Kentucky” style rifle in the Cody Museum. This rifle weighs about 18 pounds. It resides in Missouri.
Nor were the rifles all as massive as some recreated Hawkens might suggest. Especially if patterned after the Bridger rifle a very late version Or make from a precarved stock based on these very late rifles. Keep the tolerances tight. The RR hole in the stock need not be over 3/8 for example.