Hawken Smoothbore?

[taylorh]

Here is a question for those of you who know more about Hawkens and other St. Louis tradeguns... Where any of the Hawkens, Dimicks, Lehmans or other asorted St. Louis type, octogon barreled, plains rifles produced as smoothbores originally?
Taylor in Texas

 

Taylor, I have never seen one. I have seen one Hawken that was purported to be a .54 cal smoothbore but it turned out it was a rifle with a deeply coned muzzle. These makers you mentioned did sell double guns and pistols in there shops though. I don't think they sold smooth rifles.
Don

 

[chickenlittle]

See gun #4 on this page
[url] http://www.thehawkenshop.com/examples1.htm[/url]

 

That's the one I was refferring to. I've had that one in my grubby lil' paws. It's a 54 rifle. Art Ressel owned it when I got to play with it. It's a real nice piece, firearm, rifle, hunting tool. :grin:

 

[rich pierce]

It was common for many gunmakers of the time to sell smoothbores, often imported shotguns, and often stamped them with their names or got their names engraved on locks, etc. If the Hawken brothers made a typical plains gun in smoothbore, I'd be surprised. There's no advantage to a 9-11 pound, 24 or 28 gauge shotgun. It seems more likely such a gun, when we find it, was reamed out at a later date when the big game was all gone and somebody wanted to use it to shoot rabbits. The Hawkens were built they way they were for long deliberate shots over a rest or crossed sticks or deliberate offhand shooting- they are muzzle heavy at best.

 

[taylorh]

The pictured smoothbore says it is a .56. Are you saying that it was originally a .54 and was reamed out later or shot our to appear as a .56?
Taylor in Texas

 

[Okwaho]

I agree with Rich here. It just doesn't make sense,as he has pointed out to be packing a 9-12 lb. shotgun with an effective range of about 50-75 yards with the wind at your back.I would say that the gun was reamed out after the days of big and dangerous game has passed just as a ton of CW .58 rifled muskets were reamed out with their stocks cut off and then used as shotguns.
Tom Patton

 

The pictured smoothbore says it is a .56. Are you saying that it was originally a .54 and was reamed out later or shot our to appear as a .56?
Taylor in Texas

No sir, the coned muzzle may very well mike out to 56 but the rifled bore down past the coned muzzle was 54. A coned muzzle is just a slower but longer crown job that facilitates loading and also reduced rod wear. This was a common way of crowning muzzles in the 18th and 19th centuries on muzzleloading firearms. The particular rifle #4 you are referring to in the Hawken Shop collection has this feature. Rich and Tom are right though in that some Hawkens and other rifles were bored out to use as any other smoothbore but not in this instance.
Don

 

[taylorh]

Wow, thats pretty neat. This type of shallow cone to deeper rifeling further down technique, is it similar to what thompson center's QPR (I think thats what they call their new barrels) barrels today or is that something all together different?
PS I take it that it wasn't common practice in those days to stamp the caliber on the rifle?

 

Wow, thats pretty neat. This type of shallow cone to deeper rifeling further down technique, is it similar to what thompson center's QPR (I think thats what they call their new barrels) barrels today or is that something all together different?
PS I take it that it wasn't common practice in those days to stamp the caliber on the rifle?

I'm not familiar with Thompson Center rifles enough to tell you for sure, Pard. But it sounds like it could be a traditional coning type job according to your description. As far as stamping calibers on rifle barrels in the muzzleloading period? I have never seen an original barrel stamped with anything but the makers name and/or proof marks. They didn't stamp 'em with "Black Powder Only" either as far as I know. :haha:

 

[taylorh]

There must have been fewer lawyers also, cause most newer guns have what amounts to a legal agreement, and release of responsibility by the manufacturer. How things change. By the way I just want to say thanks to all of you out there who so generously share your knowledge.
Thanks Again,
Taylor in Texas