hawken ?

[trad hunter]

Is there a difference in quality between a t/c hawken
a traditions springfield hawken? one the t/c has a 1 in 48
twist and the traditions has a 1 in 66

 

[roundball]

FYI, TC makes both the 1:48" and the 1:66" twist for their Hawken (+ Renegade, other models, etc)

 

[cayugad]

Both are good rifles. Both will give you many years of dependable service if you take care of them. With the difference in twist, the Traditions being a 1:66 is a round ball rifle. The 1:48 twist will shoot round ball and conicals.

If all you were going to hunt with for a projectile is round ball, I would say get the Traditions. I have two of them and have no problems with them. In fact I have a Traditions Hawkins Woodsman with the 1:66 twist and it is an excellent accurate round ball shooting rifle.

I also have a T/C Renegade which is a dressed down Hawkins for the most part. It has the 1:48 twist and is an excellent shooting rifle also. I have shot a lot of round ball and conical out of it with excellent results.

Thompson Center has one of the best warranties in the business. If there is ever a problem with the rifle they will usually always fix it, no questions asked. I have had good luck with Traditons backing their products also.

I will go out on a limb here and say that Thompson Center is a better quality rifle, although I really have nothing bad to say about the Traditions. I own two of them.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

I can't speak specifically to the Springfield Hawken from Traditions, but I have both a T/C Renegade and a Traditions Hawken. Both are a few years old and sport double set triggers. Both are in .50 cal, both are 1:48 twist. The T/C definitely is the better rifle from a fit and finish perspective, especially when one considers the walnut stock versus birch on the Traditions. The T/C lock feels better to me, as does its trigger. Just feels more precise. The factory sights on both are about equal. One advantage (to my way of thinking) is that the Traditions nipple attaches to a post which contains a screw - removal of this screw makes it a bit easier to get a brush in to clean the flame channel from the nipple to the breach. Also, the T/C has a cone-shaped breach which takes a time or two before one figures out how best to clean it. Once this is figured out it's no problem.

From a practical point of view, the Traditions rifle is a bit lighter, and for my small hands its slimmer stock dimensions make it easier to carry. My Traditions rifle shots PRB like a house afire - three balls in one ragged hole at 50 yards. By way of contrast, the T/C Renegade doesn't seem to like PRB, but shoots Precision Bullets' .50 cal/300 grain Keith Nose Hollow Point into less than an inch at 50 yards (and I'm still working on improving that load because it feels like it'll shoot better than that).

Either way I don't think you can go wrong. And these Hawken rifles are so much fun to carry and shoot that you'll likely end up owning both brands eventually. Take it from somebody who started out by catagorically not wanting to start a collection of another type of gun... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Trad

Where are you finding a NEW Traditions Springfield Hawkens with 1-66" twist??????? If it's Jedediah Starr on the web, forget about gettin' one. They keep products listed on their webpages 2-3 years after they run out. Pizz-Pour Operation! Don't buy from there. What you order is not what you receive!

If both guns you're considering are used, the T/C has a Full Lifetime Transferable Warranty... Traditions does not! I own (2) from each manufacturer... yet I'm sold on T/C. That's all I'll buy in the forseeable future.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greeting Gentlemen,
After reading some of the postings, I will offer some thoughts about TC Hawkens and Renegades. First I have a great deal of respect TC and will not say bad things about them.When nobody was producing a quality, affordable ML rifle, TC took the chance and produced the Hawken model.All of the TC traditional ML rifles have quality components and a great warranty service. TC Hawkens have a 15/16 barrel and the Renegades a 1" barrel. Standard early models have a shallow groove 1-48 rifling twist designed for a maxi-ball which is an elongated slug. This rifling method is not the best for round balls and RB accuracy is an iffy situation, but within narrow limits gives reasonable accuracy. Green Mountain makes a drop-in barrel with .010-.011" deep rifling with a 1-66 twist rate, they shoot a RB with great accuracy. Some years back, I replaced a Renagade barrel with a Douglas XX 50 1-66 barrel for a friend. 50 yard and 100 yard groups are match winning size by anybodys standards. I can write more on this subject, but am short of time right now. For instance, the importance of a proper crown. By the way, the TCs breech thread is a 11/16" diameter special thread pitch. Do not recall the pitch or tpi right now, but will look it up for a future posting.

Best Regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[roundball]

And an extra note...TC Hawkens come in two size stocks with two different size barrel beds:

The small (regular) size TC Hawken stock accepts 15/16" barrels which are used for .45 & .50cal;

The larger TC Hawken stock is built for the 1" barrels used for the .54 & .58cal.

These 1" Hawken barrels, and the 1" barrels used in the Renegades are interchangeable, although the Renegade barrels are an inch shorter.

TC's Fox Ridge subsidiary makes 1:66" round ball barrels for the Hawken and Renegade in percussion and flint with .010" grooves.
Unfortunately, Fox Ridge has discontinued the .45cal RB barrel.
Further unfortunately, TC dropped the .45cal Hawken from it's catelog a year ago, and this year, they've dropped the .54cal Hawken...looks like all they have left to offer is a .50cal Hawken and a .50cal Renegade.