heavy trigger pull on new L&R lock

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bioprof

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I am putting together a Bedford longrifle from a TOW set of parts. I've got the barrel, L&R lock and trigger inletted, but the lock has a terribly heavy trigger pull. I think I have the trigger positioned correctly, as the front trigger just has a tiny bit of free play before it engages the sear bar. However, when testing out the trigger placement, I have to pull on the front trigger so hard that I'm afraid I'm going to break the trigger. I can get it to go off when I push a screwdriver up on the sear bar, but it takes a LOT of force. Do I need to tune the lock? I remember that Zonie had a tutorial on this, but I couldn't find it when I did a search. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
First, be absolutely sure that nothing in the lock is dragging on the wood. If not, yeah it needs some tuning. Lighten your sear spring by removing at least half its thickness on the action leaf. Do this with a taper. Also decrease some of the width. Maybe a fourth or third.Also with a taper on the action leaf. Check the angle of sear, tumbler contact at full cock. At best this will need polishing, at worst, you may need to adjust the angle and true the surface of the sear nose and tumbler notch. Check the depth of the sear contact, it needs no more contact than the thickness of the sear nose. To adjust this contact depth you can soft solder a small piece of steel behind the tumbler notch to regulate the depth of contact by filing down this piece of steel. Start out with this piece at least as high as the notch. Apply the heat from the rear underside of the tumbler, not at an angle that will over heat the notch itself. As long as you use a 430o solder and don't get carried away with the torch, this will not affect the temper of the tumbler. Polish all surfaces that have contact in movement, including the sear arm and top of trigger bars. All that being said, this will void any warranties, so use your own judgement.
Also check for drag on the action leaf of the main spring against the lock plate and correct if needed. One more thing I like to do is to install a pin in the underside of the bolster that stops the mainspring at the point of preventing over travel when going to full cock, but has nothing to do with trigger pull, just a feature that I like.
 
In addition to Wik's advise check to see if the mortice that the sear arm is in has clearence at the bottom of the hole. This is one of the sneakyest clearence problems. That is the bottom of the mortice that resembles a drilled hole. I bet you have a clearence issue at the bottom or one of the sides. BJH
 
B.Habermehl said:
In addition to Wik's advise check to see if the mortice that the sear arm is in has clearence at the bottom of the hole. This is one of the sneakyest clearence problems. That is the bottom of the mortice that resembles a drilled hole. I bet you have a clearence issue at the bottom or one of the sides. BJH

I checked the clearance with inletting black on the end of the sear, but I'll check the rest to make sure there is clearance. I am also going to try to inlet the trigger plate a little deeper too. It seems like the end of the sear is sitting pretty deep in the notch of the tumbler, but I'm not going to mess with it yet. Thanks for all of your helpful advice.
 
Try releasing the sear when the lock is out of the gun. If it's not as hard as it is in the gun, it's binding somewhere. That being said, I have had to tune many locks to lighten the pull with simple triggers.
 
rich pierce said:
Try releasing the sear when the lock is out of the gun. If it's not as hard as it is in the gun, it's binding somewhere. That being said, I have had to tune many locks to lighten the pull with simple triggers.

It still releases pretty hard even when it is out of the gun.

I remember a couple of months ago that Zonie or someone had put a tutorial on lock tuning that had really nice diagrams, but I have searched and searched and can't find it. If anyone can find the link I'd appreciate it if you would let me know.
 
I don't remember the posting but here's my basic lock tuning procedure:

If it's a newly purchased lock and you're having troubles, you should return the lock and get another. But many times, we get a lock by trading, or it was purchased long ago and sat in a box of parts for a couple of years, or maybe you'll need to work on an old lock. Almost any lock can be made to work more smoothly, reliably, and with greater speed.

Won't spark well
Normally you want to get a new frizzen if you can, if she's not sparking. Likely any frizzen part you buy is going to come "as cast" and will require de-gating, polishing, drilling for the pivot screw, hardening and tempering. If a fine new file skids on your current one, it is a hard-enough frizzen. If it digs in, hardness may not be optimal and the face will gouge. A book could be written about re-hardening and tempering frizzens, "steeling" them by attaching a plate of high carbon steel, case-hardening the old way or with Kasenit, etc. You should still order a new frizzen and mess with that one so you have at least one that works, whenever possible.

General speeding up of a lock

Clearance issues
First look for anything scraping and causing friction. It's not unusual to find the mainspring tip or the frizzen spring tip rubs against the lockplate. Carefully file these back then polish the inside of the springs. The arms of these springs should "float" along the plate without ever touching.

Polishing
All surfaces that work against each other should be polished. Every axle and every "bearing"- the axles are the sear pivot screw, frizzen pivot screw, and the tumbler axle. These can all be polished but care must be taken to not reduce their radius and introduce "slop". First check for hardness- it would not hurt to case-harden the sear pivot screw and the frizzen pivot screw and draw them back to about 450 degrees in the oven for an hour before polishing. The tumbler axles will be hardened already. When polishing, back 600 grit wet or dry paper with a file and keep everything square and sharp. Note that many sears and tumblers have little raised bearings or rings of steel a little taller than the body to rotate against the lockplate and also the inside of the bridle. Be very careful to not obliterate these. Polishing these surfaces is "iffy" sometimes. If you polish the inside surface of the bridle that holds the small tumbler axle, be careful to not take much metal off or the bridle will stand clear of the tumbler, and then the tumbler legs would need shortening. Be careful to not "dish" every hole when you polish. Backing your abrasive paper or cloth and polishing by hand is the safest.

Fit of frizzen to pan
Look at the fit of the frizzen pan cover to the lock pan. Because the pivot is already set, there's not too much you can do here but sometimes, removing a little metal from the top of the pan surface near the fence gets things sealed up a little better.

Lockplates used to be case-hardened
It would be nice if the lockplate was case-hardened but many locks work for tens of thousands of shots without this feature. There are risks of bending or warping the plate when quenching, so this is probably beyond what should be done to a working lock. if you're building one from parts, consider doing this and getting a really nice bearing surface for the tumbler to rotate on.

Problems with frizzen not flipping open
By far the most common problem with flintlocks is the interplay between the cock, flint, frizzen face, and frizzen spring. You want the cock to strike the frizzen smartly, 2/3 or more of the way up, and you want that frizzen to fly open when the cock is descending, and stay open. Problems here are tricky to diagnose and fix. These coordinated actions require a matching of strength between the mainspring and frizzen spring as well as good geometry.
Things to check:
Note how far the frizzen must be thrown back before it cams and flips itself open, and how much force is required. Is there grittiness or friction there? Carefully polish the top of the frizzen spring arm where the "teat" on the frizzen rides along it. Do the same for the little "teat" and be careful to not change the angle of that cam or round everything over until there is very little contact between the frizzen "teat" and the spring.

Heavy or unsteady trigger pulls
Sear to tumbler notch engagement is critical to good and safe shooting and unless you are both skilled and cautious, this should be left alone. If you want to go there, remove the mainspring and sear spring and now look closely at how the nose of the sear interacts with the half-cock and fill-cock notches. The sear nose should be square to the length of the sear, perpendicular to the lockplate. And ithe sear nose should be thick enough to be strong, just thin enough to fit into the half-cock notch reliably. If it is too thin, worn, not square, then stoning it back can alter the geometry. If you do stone the nose, hold the sear in a vise, use a fine stone, and get it perfectly square. The same is true for the full cock notch of the tumbler. It must be perpendicular to the axle of the tumbler and have a sharp and clean indent that engages the sear nose well. A very little judicious stoning- in a vise, level, with good light and a fine stone- will fix most rough or heavy trigger pulls. Rarely, the angles of the sear nose and full cock tumbler notch do not match, and a heavy or unsafe trigger pull is the result. The trigger forcing the sear arm up, and the sear nose down, should not move the cock an iota forward or rearward. If it is "lifting" the cock, you are fighting the mainspring. This is a good idea for a musket to be fired in volley, where an 8 pound trigger pull makes it unlikely to fire by accident, even when facing artillery fire. But such a pull is not for a squirrel rifle. The other extreme- the nose slipping out of the full cock notch- is a safety nightmare. A skilled metalworker can correct bad angles there, and anyone who does not know what he is doing, can make a safe gun unsafe.

Look to the top surface of the sear and the working arm of the sear spring- these work together and both surfaces should be polished. The sear spring must not push against the "hump" that the sear screw passes through, but that problem is rarely encountered.

Those are the basics- if you need to consider bending a cock to change the angle, bending a frizzen face, installing a new stop on the cock where it strikes the top of the lockplate, making a stronger or snappier spring, or adjusting the angle of the cam on the frizzen spring, you're getting into deep woods.
 
Bioprof,

When using double set triggers it is not uncommon for the unset front trigger to have a "heavy" pull. This is because with set trigers they are not situated such as to give optimum trigger pull weight for the unset front trigger. Try using the front trigger with the triggers in the set position and see if it works to your satisfaction.

If, after checking for any binding on wood, you still experience a heavy trigger pull, I would say you have a trigger problem, if you want to call it that, rather than a lock problem. Most quality production locks will give satisfactory service without doing any more then just polishing the working surfaces. IMHO, messing with springs and tumbler notches is not something one should do unless they have a lot of experience and know what they are doing aforehand.

Randy Hedden
 
Another idea: make sure the bridle is not too tight. I had that with an L&R. Get the screws to just stop turning, then don't force it. Mine runs better when running "loose", but the wood in the mortise holds the screw from getting too far out. I found this while tuning and it wouldn't stay at full cock. Thought it was what I did, until I played with the bridle and a screw driver. Just an idea.
 
I had an L&R lock that I could hardly trip the sear when it was out of the gun. It was something to do with the geometry of the tumbler and the notches. Michael Lea worked it over and made it sweet.
 
The sear nose and tumbler notch angles do have to be right, or very close to right. I have found that Chambers locks are usually pretty close in this area, and generally need little more than polishing and a lightened sear spring. L&R's seem to vary from lock to lock.
 
I remember a couple of months ago that Zonie or someone had put a tutorial on lock tuning that had really nice diagrams, but I have searched and searched and can't find it. If anyone can find the link I'd appreciate it if you would let me know.

I found the topic I was looking for. It was listed under adjusting the trigger pull.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.../post/74115/hl/trigger+pull+zonie/#74115[/url]
 
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Here is an update on my lock problem. I finally got the mainspring vice that was backordered, so I was able to take the lock apart. The tumbler appeared to have a groove that the sear nose was sitting in that made it almost impossible to release. There was also a gouge in the sear. It looked like it was from the mold in which it was cast. I carefully stoned the tumbler notch to get rid of the groove which created a ridge, and polished the sear nose. The force necessary to trip the sear is now reduced by less than half.

While I had the lock apart, I lightly polished the lock plate, applied a heavy coat of cold blue, then polished it back to metal at the high points. It now looks like a well used lock.

I'm very pleased with the results now that I have put it back together.
 
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