Hello!

[WolfSharp]

Hello! I'm a cartoonist preparing an action cartoon set in 18th century Netherlands and I need information on black powder for muskets.
Despite extensive research, I haven't found much expertise, so I'm turning to this community for help.

I have three questions: 1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

Sorry for the unusual questions and have a great day!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hello! I'm a cartoonist preparing an action cartoon set in 18th century Netherlands and I need information on black powder for muskets.
Despite extensive research, I haven't found much expertise, so I'm turning to this community for help.

I have three questions: 1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

Perhaps there is a language barrier, but IF a powder horn holds 1 kg of powder, then it holds 1 kg of powder. Powder containers in the 1720's in America would hold a pound. Sometimes powder was also placed in cloth bags.

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

I'd say no. You need to do the test yourself. Get some coarse ground cornmeal or some hominy grits, and take a container of that dimension which has walls that will not flex from the weight, fill it with the corn meal or the grits, then remove what you put into the container and weigh that. Cornmeal is close to the same weight as black powder and hominy grits are too.

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage

Depending on the construction of the carriage and where it was placed on the carriage.....

The explosion would likely blow out any windows if there was glass in the window openings. The explosion would likely damage the floor to the carriage, but IF the windows were not very substantial, it's likely only the windows would shatter... this would release the explosive pressure and no further damage would result. If the latching mechanism to the carriage door was not substantial, the explosion would likely blow open the door, but the carriage would survive.

and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

Not sure what you are asking here..., are you asking if that much powder could force the carriage in the illustration into the air and have it travel 30 meters, coming down onto a person? NO

Could parts of the carriage be forced into the air, and impact and kill a person 30 meters away..., unlikely, but again, shattered glass might fly that far and be very sharp and that might be fatal.

Television and movies greatly exaggerate the results of explosions for dramatic effect, when the actual results would not be very spectacular. I was once in the US Marine Corps Infantry, and I can tell you first hand that a hand grenade is very dangerous when it detonates, BUT it is not at all as spectacular an explosion as you see when grenades are shown in movies or TV..., visually they are rather disappointing in real life.

LD

 

[Artificer]

1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

A typical horn of that period would only hold about 1 pound of powder, not 2.2 lbs.

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

Thats 624.574 cubic inches for the box. Sorry, I can't find a conversion for black powder weight to volume.

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

That would depend on what kind of container the black powder was in. If the black powder was just laying on the inside floor of the carriage in a pile and not in a container, it would flash burn/char much or most of the inside of the carriage, but there is not much containing the force/pressure of the burning powder. So it may blow open shut doors and crack/break/splinter some wood, but a person standing 30 meters away might not be injured other than with some splinters. If the person threw himself to the ground, I doubt he would be hurt.

If the powder was in a tight fitting wooden cask, the cask would be blown apart and pieces/splinters of wood would damage the carriage. It is possible a standing person might be hit with a large enough piece of wood to do serious damage. (I would not want to be standing within 30 meters in this case.)

If the powder is enclosed in a metal or iron case or shell, one might be hit with a piece of the metal shrapnel 30 meters away and it might be lethal, depending on where it would hit one.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

I have three questions: 1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

Perhaps there is a language barrier, but IF a powder horn holds 1 kg of powder, then it holds 1 kg of powder. Powder containers in the 1720's in America would hold a pound. Sometimes powder was also placed in cloth bags.

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

I'd say no. You need to do the test yourself. Get some coarse ground cornmeal or some hominy grits, and take a container of that dimension which has walls that will not flex from the weight, fill it with the corn meal or the grits, then remove what you put into the container and weigh that. Cornmeal is close to the same weight as black powder and hominy grits are too.

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage

Depending on the construction of the carriage and where it was placed on the carriage.....

The explosion would likely blow out any windows if there was glass in the window openings. The explosion would likely damage the floor to the carriage, but IF the windows were not very substantial, it's likely only the windows would shatter... this would release the explosive pressure and no further damage would result. If the latching mechanism to the carriage door was not substantial, the explosion would likely blow open the door, but the carriage would survive.

and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

Not sure what you are asking here..., are you asking if that much powder could force the carriage in the illustration into the air and have it travel 30 meters, coming down onto a person? NO Could parts of the carriage be forced into the air, and impact and kill a person 30 meters away..., unlikely, but again, shattered glass might fly that far and be very sharp and that might be fatal.

Television and movies greatly exaggerate the results of explosions for dramatic effect, when the actual results would not be very spectacular. I was once in the US Marine Corps Infantry, and I can tell you first hand that a hand grenade is very dangerous when it detonates, BUT it is not at all as spectacular an explosion as you see in movies or TV..., visually they are rather disappointing.

LD

LD,

Recently I saw something in a series trailer where a guy asks his girlfriend, "So you don't like guns, huh?" She replied, "No, I don't like guns." Then he asked, "So how do you feel about explosives?"

I could see you and I in a case like that. LOL.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

LD,

Recently I saw something in a series trailer where a guy asks his girlfriend, "So you don't like guns, huh?" She replied, "No, I don't like guns." Then he asked, "So how do you feel about explosives?"

I could see you and I in a case like that. LOL.

Gus

I got good grades for the first semester of Chemistry (first semester was about distilling and deflagration) , and I got great grades at Lejeune when the engineers taught "Field Expedient Explosives and How to Make Them".

Black powder works for some of the stuff the OP is asking but you just need a LOT more of it....

LD

 

[ppg1949]

I agree with Loyalist Dave & Artificer.
But if you are doing a historical fiction action cartoon, then I suggest you use your literary license and have the powder placed where you want it and have the explosion destroy what ever you need done according to your story.

 

[WolfSharp]

I agree with Loyalist Dave & Artificer.
But if you are doing a historical fiction action cartoon, then I suggest you use your literary license and have the powder placed where you want it and have the explosion destroy what ever you need done according to your story.

Gracias!

 

[WolfSharp]

I have three questions: 1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

Perhaps there is a language barrier, but IF a powder horn holds 1 kg of powder, then it holds 1 kg of powder. Powder containers in the 1720's in America would hold a pound. Sometimes powder was also placed in cloth bags.

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

I'd say no. You need to do the test yourself. Get some coarse ground cornmeal or some hominy grits, and take a container of that dimension which has walls that will not flex from the weight, fill it with the corn meal or the grits, then remove what you put into the container and weigh that. Cornmeal is close to the same weight as black powder and hominy grits are too.

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage

Depending on the construction of the carriage and where it was placed on the carriage.....

The explosion would likely blow out any windows if there was glass in the window openings. The explosion would likely damage the floor to the carriage, but IF the windows were not very substantial, it's likely only the windows would shatter... this would release the explosive pressure and no further damage would result. If the latching mechanism to the carriage door was not substantial, the explosion would likely blow open the door, but the carriage would survive.

and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

Not sure what you are asking here..., are you asking if that much powder could force the carriage in the illustration into the air and have it travel 30 meters, coming down onto a person? NO

Could parts of the carriage be forced into the air, and impact and kill a person 30 meters away..., unlikely, but again, shattered glass might fly that far and be very sharp and that might be fatal.

Television and movies greatly exaggerate the results of explosions for dramatic effect, when the actual results would not be very spectacular. I was once in the US Marine Corps Infantry, and I can tell you first hand that a hand grenade is very dangerous when it detonates, BUT it is not at all as spectacular an explosion as you see when grenades are shown in movies or TV..., visually they are rather disappointing in real life.

LD

Thank you very much!

 

[WolfSharp]

I am grateful for your help.

1) How much gunpowder (in pounds) would a typical horn powder keg from the 1720s contain, assuming it held 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of powder?

A typical horn of that period would only hold about 1 pound of powder, not 2.2 lbs.

2) Can 6kg (13.2 lbs) of musket powder fit inside a box measuring 11.8x7.9x6.7 inches (30x20x17cm)?

Thats 624.574 cubic inches for the box. Sorry, I can't find a conversion for black powder weight to volume.

3) If 6kg (13.2 lbs) of black powder for a musket were to be detonated inside a wooden 4-passenger carriage, would it shatter the carriage and fatally injure someone falling from 98 feet (30 meters) away?

That would depend on what kind of container the black powder was in. If the black powder was just laying on the inside floor of the carriage in a pile and not in a container, it would flash burn/char much or most of the inside of the carriage, but there is not much containing the force/pressure of the burning powder. So it may blow open shut doors and crack/break/splinter some wood, but a person standing 30 meters away might not be injured other than with some splinters. If the person threw himself to the ground, I doubt he would be hurt.

If the powder was in a tight fitting wooden cask, the cask would be blown apart and pieces/splinters of wood would damage the carriage. It is possible a standing person might be hit with a large enough piece of wood to do serious damage. (I would not want to be standing within 30 meters in this case.)

If the powder is enclosed in a metal or iron case or shell, one might be hit with a piece of the metal shrapnel 30 meters away and it might be lethal, depending on where it would hit one.

Gus

Thanks, I am grateful for your help.

 

[Artificer]

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

@wolf Sharp, your box dimensions as @Artificer calculated is 624 in^3 (Times 235 grains/in^3/7000 grains per pound) comes out to just shy of 21 pounds of powder or about 9 kg. The metric system wasn't used in the Netherlands in 1720. A cloth sack of 20 pounds would fit in the box, if the sack was sized for the box or 20, 1 pound sacks could be fitted.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Of course, to complicate things, a standard pound in the Netherlands could be different that a pound in the United Kingdom or other countries and our pound of 16 ounces today. It is possible that gun powder in the 1720's Netherlands would have weighed 12 ounces using the apothecaries' measure instead of the 16 ounces used in the avoirdupois system of weights. But for @WolfSharp, 20 bags with one pound of powder wouldn't do that carriage any good to be sure whether it was an apothecaries' pound or a pound avoirdupois.

 

[tenngun]

Powder and water are close to the same weight per volume. So a liter of powder will fit in a liter bottle and weigh about a kilo. The American pound fits on a one pint container two pounds in a quart
I have a one pound horn and a half pound at the edges of my horns, most about 3/4 pound.

 

[TDM]

My head hurts now.