Help for a flint smoothie newbie ...

[Flint62Smoothie]

Well, after years of attending Nor’East US primitive snowshoe biathlons and drooling all over the flint smoothbore others carried ”¦ I finally picked up my 1st flint smoothie! I just LOVE it and must say I am hooked :surrender: !

The joke is that she's all 'bead'd up', which with my thick Bahstin (Boston) accent ... the seller thought I was saying it was 'beat' up. She’s a Caywood Wilson in 62 caliber that apparently was a kit gun. Some may not like the beads, but to me it's different ... and I liked it and could afford it - so I bought it! I love the way it was antiqued and looks used and to me the barrel transition before the wedding bands is just too cool for words.

I only surmise that it was a kit gun due to a few fit issues, like the forward end of the sideplate sunken in and a slight gap at the rear of the inletting for the tang. Whenever I ”˜snug’ up the bolt from the trigger guard, it starts to pull the barrel forward. (1) Is there any way to stop this?? There are slots in the barrel thingies for the barrel to expand as she heats up.

She shoots great! I shoot Scheutzen rifles in my 'other' life so I think that helps me out offhand. But boy, using 2F Scheutzen powder (tried Goex too), after 2 shots I have to scrub the barrel with a bronze or nylon brush or I’d have to hammer the 3rd shot down. Right now I’m using 0.600” cast roundballs and 0.010” homespun ticking ($2 yard @ Wal*Mart) with a homemade moose milk ala ”˜Mama Flinter’ of Murphy’s, NAPA cutting oil, and water.

(2) I know my patching is too tight ”¦ but is there any lube out there that might be a better choice? My friends who got me into this (thank you!) use 0.010” pre-lubed patched with Wonder Lube or Bore Butter, but my bore mic’d to 0.617”. They advise I haven’t seasoned the barrel properly with BB or WL, but I was getting WICKED powder caking with it. Then again, using that load it was only 20 degrees-F outside. The target shot below was shot around 34 degrees, but again, I had wicked tight patches.

Now I did try her shootin’ bareball, as someone gave me 4 to try and I put them into a 7” group offhand, including one called flyer. The group below is about 3”. I did the trigger job myself and it’s now down to about 5 pounds now, which is much less than ½ of what it was when I bought it.

(3) Should I shim the forward end of the sideplate to level it out? Should it be flush or more proud for its entire inletting length?

I’m a newbie to flint, so take it easy on me, but I had a T/C Renegade 60cal smoothbore many years ago when Taxachusetts, errr ”¦ MA only allowed smoothbores to hunt with. Now with rising deer populations ... they allow those ”˜other’ kind of guns, that I won’t even call a muzzleloader so as not to bear the wrath of you guys !

(4) Anyone know what those beads are called? Trying to get some spare to fill in some missing ones, though I won't make it 'perfect', as she'll never be confused for a gun Mike Brooks and others here have made (of which I still drool over ...) and make looked well worn, but cared for. Anyway, thanks to y’all in advance :thumbsup: for any load/info you can offer this har’ smoothie newbie!

 

[AZ-Robert]

Beautiful smoothie! As for lube, I'm very pleased with Stumpy's Moose Milk. I've found it really helps take care of the fouling and caking you're experiencing. Here is the recipe:

Stumpkiller's Moose Milk

Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) __ 8 oz.
Castor Oil _______________ 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap ________ 1 oz.
Witch Hazel ______________ 4 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated) __ 16 oz.

Add in the above order and shake well to mix as added, and again before every use or transfer. Oil and water don't mix, dontcha know. Castor is alcohol soluable, but not in water. And yes, the witch hazel does seem to make a difference in how well it smears and coats the bore.

I dip cotton strips twice, allowing them to dry flat, for "dry patching" (it's still oily, but not messy). Works great as a wet lube and powder solvent, too.

For absolute target or hunting I either wipe between shots with a spit patch if using a ball block or else add a drop of fresh milk to the patch and smear it between my thumb and index finger if cutting at the muzzle.

If you want something a little thicker, bee's wax is the trick:

Stumpkiller's Moose Snot

A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range.
SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water. ( A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't ooze out before it cools.

 

[RickD]

I like the beads alot..I`d take that rifle over alot of the new ones

 

[richardn]

Great looking early smoothbore that looks like it was restocked in NE and then captured by an Abnaki warrior.

I had one stocked in proper Engish walnut - but it did not have the character this one does.

Have fun and good shooting.

Richard
NC

 

[tg]

The beads look to be a somewhat irregular "seed" bead ( some call this size pony beads)of about 1/8th inch or so, Baker Bay beads or any of the suppliers who sell beads should be able to match them prety closely if you give them a good description.

 

[Rebel]

Well first off nice gun. Now, if you want to be able to shoot all day without swabbing the bore i would suggest using an overpowder wad and half a lubed fiber cushion wad under the patched rd ball. Works for me. Also, you might try to get ahold of some .595 rd balls to try. I found they worked better in might tight bored .20 ga. If they work better n your you can contact Jeff Tanner for a .595 mould.

 

[No Deer]

My smoothie mics out right at .62, I use a .60 round ball and pillow ticking from Joanne's. Don't know the thickness, never checked it. Usually, unless it is too cold, I just spit patch. I usually shoot 65grs. of 3f goex black powder for target shooting, and I have shot all day and not had to swab the bore. I shot a 20 shot woodswalk, two 10 clay bird strings of trap, and then about 20 more shots on the 25 yard line. I have found that spit patch works the best for me at keeping the fowling down. If it gets too cold (lower 20s) I use wonderlube because I don't want the spit patches to freeze in the barrel (have seen it happen to others).

If your bore mics out at .617, you may want to try a smaller ball, maybe a .595, and then your .02 patch.

As far as seasoning your bore, you will get a lot of differing opinions on that. I don't personally subscribe to that theory, but there are some that do. Even if is an accurate theory, I am not sure how applicable it would be to a smoothie.

I would say that the taget you posted looks really good to me, especially just starting out with a smoothie. You just need to practice more and adjust your sight picture to raise the point of impact some.

Smoothies are very addictive, you will not shoot your rifles very much anymore now that you have come over to the smooth side

 

[BRUN]

Way Cool gun :grin: Gotta say Im jealous,I still gotta wait a week or more for my first smoothie

 

[Mike Brooks]

Go to 3fff and a thicker patch I know it sounds wrong, but it will cure your fouling problems.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Thanks for the help guys, y’all are a great resource!

I'm very pleased with Stumpy's Moose Milk. I've found it really helps take care of the fouling and caking you're experiencing.

I will make some up once I find ”˜where’ to buy witch hazel.

The beads look to be a somewhat irregular "seed" beads ...

Thanks TG, I just sent an email to them!

”¦ if you want to be able to shoot all day without swabbing the bore I would suggest using an overpowder wad and half a lubed fiber cushion wad ”¦ might try .595 rd balls. If they work better n your you can contact Jeff Tanner for a .595 mould.

Thanks Rebel! I was thinking about the wads or what Mike (below) suggests for ”˜accuracy loads’ when I can really take the time. I’ll also look into scrounging up some 595s to try once she fouls up some. I’ve heard of Jeff Tanner and will pursue that route once I settle on a ”˜fast’ load and an ”˜accurate’ load.

Smoothies are very addictive, you will not shoot your rifles very much anymore now that you have come over to the smooth side

No kidding ... I have a ”˜like new’ Schuetzen Win LoWall that only has 20 rounds through her since this smoothie called to me ... “Take me home ... ” ”“ haha!

Go to 3fff and a thicker patch I know it sounds wrong, but it will cure your fouling problems.

Wow, no kidding :shocked2: ... who wudda thunk of that :hmm: ? Not me, for sure! Any lube you can suggest ?


All:
What about the unanswered questions? Where should the sideplate sit? And is there anything I can do for the tang issue? Thanks again, you guys sure make a newbie feel most welcome here :thumbsup: !

 

[Wes/Tex]

Here's a site with a whale of a lot of info for rocklock shooters. Bob's a great guy with a good heart. Good luck.
[url] http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen[/url]/

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you will find much more consistent accuracy results if you use the overpowder card wad, plus a lubed half cushion wad behind a patched round ball. I think you need to try the .595 Diameter balls, too, and then use a .015-.020 Thick cloth patch with the smaller ball. The card and lubed cushion wad will eliminate the crud buildup and the only need to clean between shots will be on either very dry days- like when its below 32 degrees- or when its very warm and humid on the range. You will want to use some kind of alcohol based lube in the winter months to get the crud out of the barrel, and in the humid hot days, you will want to run a dry cleaning patch down the barrel to help dry and pull the liquified crud out
of the barrel. Out of habit, begun with my .50 cal. rifle, I run a spit patch ( a light wipe across the tongue- no big gobs of spit!) downt he barrel, so that I can loosen the cake, and the pull it out the barrel. Then I follow with a dry patch before loading the next powder charge. In my .62, I find I have a one shot dirty barrel, shot after shot, doing this.

Now, my .62 cal smoothie is oversized, with a bore diameter of about .623". I actually had to use 19 gauge wads in my gun to seal the gases. However, the .600 ball works fine with the thick cloth patches for accuracy. You do really need .020 difference in diameter between the bore and the size of the ball you use. At .617, you need a .597. or the next available size small, .595, for ball diameter, so you can use the proper patching.

Your goal is to be able to start the ball and patch into the barrel with your thumb, and not have to use a short starter on these smooth bores. Then run the big ball down onto the powder, or onto the overpowder wad and half cushion wad that is lubed with moose milk.

I think you need to stick with FFg powder, and not use the FFFg that Mike recommends. If you can, try them both, and see which works better in your gun. I don't like the pressure peaks you get using 3Fg in these harge bore guns. It causes a wider SDV, and less accurate groups( larger) than using the tamer FFg powder. But again, you are a target shooter, and know the value of using a chronograph to load test, so try them both and see which is better. I have seen men use FFFg in 20 ga. smoothbores, with good effect. I don't remember the loads they used, but the holes in the target looked pretty good.

 

[Trot]

I could only shoot a few shots before cleaning in my .62 Northwest gun. I switched to Ballistol for lube, now I can shoot all day.

 

[squirejohn]

That looks like a pretty good target for a first time SB shooter with a new gun!

In my smoothbore, which also has a .617 bore diameter, I use a .600 ball with cotton drill patch material. This mics to .015 to .017 using the clutch on the micrometer. Compressing the material without the clutch it mics .012 - .013. This loads quite easily with a bearoil/beeswax lube. Other lubes such as carnolaoil/beeswax and stumpy's moosesnot work equally as well.
For the biathlons I use 3F and ease of loading is never a problem. I almost never experience a misfire with 3F whereas with 2F I occasionally do; (not good for biathlons where a hammer fall counts). With 2F fouling may be a problem but this seems to depend on weather conditions. Also loading immediately after shooting so the fouling doesn't dry also facilitates ease of loading.

 

[xxgrampa]

hi ho 50,
to level out your side plate, put a drop of hot melt glue under it. then push the side plate flush or proud which ever you wish.

hot melt glue is a good way to 'add wood'. .

..ttfn..grampa..

 

[Todd Rickard]

Good lookin gun, with lots of personality. good shootin too!
As for the bead replacement.. the gun has been aged (and looks great) ... if you can't find beeads to do the replacement I wouldn't worry about it. A gun like that would have lost some beads over time anyway, and it just adds to the character of the piece.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Wes/Tex, Paul V, and Squire John: Thank you! I will put that load info to good use.

Trot: I have Ballistol liquid and will lube up some patches. Thanks!

That looks like a pretty good target for a first time SB shooter with a new gun!

Maybe, but those weren’t the first 20 or 30 shots. You should have seen the 1st couple out of my new-to-me ”˜flinch’lock!

”¦ to level out your side plate, put a drop of hot melt glue under it

Simple! I love it ”¦ KISS.

... if you can't find beads ”¦ I wouldn't worry about it ”¦ would have lost some beads over time anyway, ”¦ adds to the character

Excellent point!

=========================================

Heard this one today ”¦

"Why are flintlock rifles called 'flintlocks'?"

... because 'Click-Fsst-BOOM' is too hard for most people to pronounce, hehe :rotf: !

 

[Strawstalker/NM]

Great looking smoothbore :thumbsup: - I like the beads a lot! I tack up most of my guns - some don't like them but I do and that's what counts.
I use the same lube and can shoot all day long and clean when I am done. My mix is 7 parts water, 1 part MOS and 1 part WSO. I use a .600 cal ball and a .15 cotton patch. Best of luck with you new toy. Dan