Help getting started. Molds and loads. TC 50cal.

[[GF]Burke]

I hope this is the right section.
I just picked this up. This is the data I could find after some researching. If this sounds right:

TC Renegade 50cal single trigger.
1/4-28 nipple threads
Barrel: 26” octagonal, 1:38 twist
#11 caps

We use our gold panning stuff and hit the range berms here. I have melted a lot of lead bars (after fluxing and cleaning a lot, so it's soft).
I also have RS (FFG equivalent). I mostly had this stuff so I could make my single shot 12g a "black powder" gun. That's fun.

This is my first real BP rifle. Knowing this data, what would be my best bet for accuracy for a mold do ya think? Lee REAL? Improved Minie Ball? What size or weight? 75-90 grain of powder is what I'm guessing to try?
If I use lubed wads for these conical shaped bullets, do I still need to lube the bullets?

I know the basics of loading and understand. I just want the right gear.
Thanks for any help.

 

[Maven]

A patched .490" RB (with .018"thick pillow ticking patches) and 70gr. FFg would be a good place to start. Second choice would be a T/C .50cal. Maxi-Ball cast from a T/C mould with 70gr. - 85gr. FFg (no patch needed). Btw, the rate of twist of the Renegade is typically 1:48 and I'm partial to T/C moulds, both RB and Maxi-Ball as they are reasonably priced, easily found, cast well, and dimensionally correct, the Maxi-Ball ones especially.

 

[coupe]

I have 2 50 cal 1:48 twist hawken style rifles, both shoot very well with .495 rb. and 85 grs. 3f goex real black .018 pillow tick and pure mink oil lube. NOT the silicone mix stuff used on boots, but pure oil found on line. Tried the .490 ball and not great, went to the .495 and tightened up the group real nice.
One thing to look real close at if you are tearing patches is the sharpness of the rifleing at the bore mouth. I used some 320 grit abrasive paper with my thumb to sooth the entry and stopped cutting patches right away. EVEN pressure all the way around the bore make a smooth even radius so the ball and patch get squeezed into the muzzle with good lube you should almost be able to reuse the fired patch.
coupe

 

[Zonie]

Since he said it has a single trigger, that would indicate that the gun is a Renegade Hunter. It uses the same .005 deep grooves with a 1:48 twist that the TC Hawken uses so, any load that is good for the TC Hawken should work in this Renegade Hunter.

 

[[GF]Burke]

Oh, 1:48. Ok Thanks guys. Wiki is fakenews.

So on the way home I had to grab stuff to get me going. Not sure yet, but I'd assume most of this should come in handy. Having credit at that store because I trade brass all the time.
Thanks for the tips, I'll keep watching and trying these things out. Get a mold or 2 on the way. We can't hunt with 209s here, but since I have tons of those too, I'll probably get the adapter.

 

[longcruise]

Looks like you have a good start on your shooting gear. 490 or 495 balls should work. I See you have prelubed patches and they may work out just fine but exploring bulk material can expand your options.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Are you sure it's a Renegade? It sure looks like a New Englander. If the barrel is round, it is a New Englander, another fine rifle 1:48" twist. Be careful with the bore brush and bore mop. I only buy the style that loops the wire through the brass. If it is only twisted wire glued in, they have a bad tendency of falling off. I wouldn't worry too much about using either one anyway, you don't really need a bore brush. I use one once in a great while to get into the chamber of the patent breech. you can google pictures to see what that looks like. They used to make a scraper just for TC's, but the brush works just as well. I might do that once a year. Water and a patch is all that is needed to clean black powder. With pyrodex, a little soap wouldn't hurt.

Pyrodex works, but is not the best powder ever. Make sure you clean the rifle immediately after firing. I wouldn't let it sit more than a few hours, or whatever the drive is home. If you let Pyrodex sit overnight, you will find a rust bucket in the morning. A blackpowder like Goex or Swiss is ideal. You still need to clean it eventually, but a rifle left overnight as you gut and skin an animal is just fine. I've even hunted 2 days on a fouled bore with no rust with black powder.

I would not waste time with the Lee REAL bullet. I've had 5 TC guns, and the REAL is horrendous in all of them. The only guys who get them to work seem to have tight bores. TC is pretty consistent and true to size. A round ball is a great choice. A maxi ball is usually very good as well. The other two tools you will likely want is a patch worm, and for sure get a nipple wrench. A ball puller is not a bad idea either. You will dry ball eventually, it's just a matter of when. The easiest cure is to unscrew the nipple, trickle as much powder as you can through the hole, put the nipple back in, and fire. Boom, barrel cleared in 2 minutes.

 

[SDSmlf]

We can't hunt with 209s here, but since I have tons of those too, I'll probably get the adapter. Just my opinion.

Have a 209 adaptor. Ultimately, just few more small items to drop in the field, and when dropped, no way to fire gun. Add in different POI when compared to
percussion caps, and I am not a fan. Find that percussion caps (along with musket caps and flint) work about as good as you would hope for. Just my experience.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I've also got a Magspark adapter, and find it a pain. The cap is tiny, very easy to loose. Without the cap you have nothing. The primers like to stick in the bottom. Some say if you spit on them, it helps. I'm not about to spit on my primers. The worst part is they didn't shoot as good as #11 magnum caps.

 

[[GF]Burke]

Awesome. Thanks. Yeah, she's a TC Renegade, she says so. That stick I have has that ball puller built on, some screw thing. So no to the 'REAL'.
The 209 isn't to be really used, just as a backup. I notice all the #11 caps are sold out online just like 9mm. This store had a bunch, but I just want an alternative choice. Much like my adapters for my single shot 12g (22lr, 20g, 9mm, .357, BP)
Nice, 'nipple wrench' is on the way. Thanks

 

[nkbj]

Please let us know how long lead works out for you. The 48" twist isn't particularly "fast" and increasing the RPM's by upping the powder charges are sometimes better.

 

[Mulebrain]

Start off with 50 grains of FF, start at the base charge and work your way up from there.

 

[mooman76]

I've used the Lee REAL in a 1-48 twist and it worked great. It wasn't a TC, it was a CVA but shot tight groups.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I would suggest that you, @[GF]Burke, wait with the molds until you have tried some of the roundball sizes and the bullets. T/C Maxi-Balls are not in production, but can be found being sold by some bullet producers. The T/C Maxi-Ball mold can be found in the configuration of a Lyman mold.

Bullets such as the Lee REAL should have a larger driving band than the measurement of the groove to groove diameter of the rifle. Otherwise you have gas cutting that is a destroyer of accuracy. Measure your bore both the land to land diameter and the groove to groove diameter.

 

[[GF]Burke]

Thanks guys. It seems most are saying the .495 RB is pretty much the way to go. So for sure getting that mold.
That maxi-ball mold is $85 and there is 2 different "50cal" sizes... so..hm...
But here is more stuff just to get me started to test things out. But at least this weekend I have 450 balls and patches we can just get the feet wet.

 

[Maven]

Thanks guys. It seems most are saying the .495 RB is pretty much the way to go. So for sure getting that mold.
That maxi-ball mold is $85 and there is 2 different "50cal" sizes... so..hm...
But here is more stuff just to get me started to test things out. But at least this weekend I have 450 balls and patches we can just get the feet wet.

Before you buy any moulds, try a box of .490" RB,s and .495" RB's, then decide. Btw, look for used moulds in VG condition on eBay, etc., as they are pretty common in those sizes. If no luck there, try a new Lee Precision mould in either of those calibers, for much less $$$.

 

[bubba.50]

Very nice lookin‘ Renegade. Lee R.E.A.L. Molds are less than 20 bucks each at Midsouth and they’ve always worked great in my guns. And most calibers come in two different weights.

 

[longcruise]

Thanks guys. It seems most are saying the .495 RB is pretty much the way to go. So for sure getting that mold.
That maxi-ball mold is $85 and there is 2 different "50cal" sizes... so..hm...
But here is more stuff just to get me started to test things out. But at least this weekend I have 450 balls and patches we can just get the feet wet.

Just a few comments on your photo of items. You will probably find that 495 ball size to be a good choice. It's important to play around with patch thickness in finding the right load. Patch toughness is also important but difficult to judge without actually shooting them. Lube matters but not as much as we sometimes think. Consistency with lubes is very important.

The improved minie is an accurate bullet and VERY deadly. However it is a hollow based design so at some point you can reach a load level where the hollow base expands and takes on the shape of a badminton bird. Not a good thing. It is said that Lee has made the hollow base smaller and thicker so it might be a non problem. Just something to watch for.

Never understood the purpose of the nipple picks. Thousands of shots fired and every ignition problem possible encountered (almost always user caused ) and the solutions never involved a nipple pick.

The Maxi molds are expensive because they are steel. Originally the TC molds were made by Lyman and were steel. Later TC switched to aluminium molds made by ????????. I have the TC/Lyman 490 ball mold and 370 gr Maxi mold. They are both excellent.

I need to do a run of 54 balls and while at it can run you 15 or 20 Maxi balls to try out. PM me your snail mail address.

 

[Mulebrain]

.490 is all i have ever shot in the .50, I think it really depends on your barrel, patch size etc

 

[[GF]Burke]

Awesome man. Heck ya, I'll send back a chunk of lead, Longcruse.
I see they have: Maxi-Ball Bullet Mold #504617 50 Caliber (504 Diameter) 370 Grain. I guess I was wrong about diff sizes for the 'maxi'. Was looking at something else.