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Help identify 1851 Navy
- Thread starter Cosmo
- Start date
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sourdough
40 Cal
It is an Armi San Marco .36. The logo is a stylized ASM. Are there any proofmarks or date code on the bottom of the frame near the barrel lug or on the right side of the frame?
Regards,
Jim
Regards,
Jim
sourdough
40 Cal
This is a photo of an ASM frame. The left arrow points to the ASM logo; the right arrow points to the date code, which is two alpha characters in a rectangle. The other two are proofmarks, all above the serial number. If the revolver is older than 1975 the date code will be in Roman numerals on the right side of the frame.
If it does not have a date code or proofmarks it was sold as a "kit gun", to be assembled and finished buy the buyer.
Italian Date code chart:
Regards,
Jim
If it does not have a date code or proofmarks it was sold as a "kit gun", to be assembled and finished buy the buyer.
Italian Date code chart:
Regards,
Jim
sourdough
40 Cal
The late Dr. Jim L. Davis, who created the RPRCA (Replica Percussion Revolver Collector Association) nearly two decades ago referred to revolvers of this genre as the "accidental" Schneider & Glassick, even though the revolvers were not marketed as S&G revolvers. They all had brass frames and smooth, non-engraved cylinders, and parts were made by several small obscure Italian manufacturers under the collective assortium name C.O.M. , who marketed them marked as such and also sold them to importers who put their own names on barrels and frames (Sile, FIE, et al). These revolvers were basically hand fitted using the various parts provided to the assembler. If anyone has a revolver marked C.O.M. there are no parts available, but it is collector valuable and should be relegated as a wallhanger or a safe queen.
The reason for them to exist is because they were an inexpensive alternative (for the buyer) to the 1851 Navy .36 steel frame with engraved cylinders because they were cheaper to produce. When Val Forgett (Navy Arms) first started importing Italian guns in 1959 (created to his specifications), made by Gregorelli & Uberti (G.U.), the first guns were 1851 Navy .36 steel frame/octagonal barrel revolvers. Forgett realized he could also market a less expensive .36 revolver alternative for the market using a brass frame, a part round/part octagon barrel, and a smooth cylinder. Even though it was not marketed as such, it is a replica of the Griswold & Gunnison.
The early G.U. revolvers supplied to Navy Arms (1959-1961) did not have Italian proofmarks and date codes, and that so alarmed collectors of original revolvers that the NRA would not allow Forgett/Navy Arms to advertise their wares in The American Rifleman magazine for many years.
ASM started producing revolvers in 1963, mostly supplying importers like Replica Arms El Paso Texas, and when G.U. stopped production in 1962, Navy Arms looked for other sources, primarily ASM, Uberti, Armi San Paolo, and even Pietta.
Sorry to be so long winded.
Regards,
Jim
The reason for them to exist is because they were an inexpensive alternative (for the buyer) to the 1851 Navy .36 steel frame with engraved cylinders because they were cheaper to produce. When Val Forgett (Navy Arms) first started importing Italian guns in 1959 (created to his specifications), made by Gregorelli & Uberti (G.U.), the first guns were 1851 Navy .36 steel frame/octagonal barrel revolvers. Forgett realized he could also market a less expensive .36 revolver alternative for the market using a brass frame, a part round/part octagon barrel, and a smooth cylinder. Even though it was not marketed as such, it is a replica of the Griswold & Gunnison.
The early G.U. revolvers supplied to Navy Arms (1959-1961) did not have Italian proofmarks and date codes, and that so alarmed collectors of original revolvers that the NRA would not allow Forgett/Navy Arms to advertise their wares in The American Rifleman magazine for many years.
ASM started producing revolvers in 1963, mostly supplying importers like Replica Arms El Paso Texas, and when G.U. stopped production in 1962, Navy Arms looked for other sources, primarily ASM, Uberti, Armi San Paolo, and even Pietta.
Sorry to be so long winded.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks a ton!
Mine is date coded as built in 1979. I've owned it since 1998. At some point in it's life, the cylinder started to intermittently fail to advance when the hammer was cocked, eventually it stopped advancing altogether. It's been in the safe ever since.
I disassembled and cleaned it today. The offending parts look very Uberti-esque. I ordered replacements from Dixie Gun Works; maybe they'll fit or can be fitted, maybe not...either way, the parts were inexpensive.
Thanks again for the help.
Mine is date coded as built in 1979. I've owned it since 1998. At some point in it's life, the cylinder started to intermittently fail to advance when the hammer was cocked, eventually it stopped advancing altogether. It's been in the safe ever since.
I disassembled and cleaned it today. The offending parts look very Uberti-esque. I ordered replacements from Dixie Gun Works; maybe they'll fit or can be fitted, maybe not...either way, the parts were inexpensive.
Thanks again for the help.
