Help identify this pistol please?

[cynthialee]

We picked up this pistol today at the local pawn shop.

Not sure who made it. Notice it has a buckhorn sight.

Thank you.

 

[SteveFink]

Looks Italian made in 1977 if I read that correctly - not sure on the maker - there is an article in the articles & links section of the forums that explains it pretty good. I cant see the makers logo well enough to tell more - the date code looks like AC if I read that right

 

[Jim Blair]

Well............it's Italian and made in 1977.Can you decipher what the markings are within the circle?
http://www.powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf

 

[George T.]

I dont know who made it but I wonder if it was a kit. The diamonds look like a custom touch to me.Is the rear sight backwards? It looks pretty good to me! Let us know how when you shoot it.
Geo. T.

 

[cynthialee]

I pulled the barrel and the browning job is a joke. The top part that shows is browned and the part hiden by wood is naturaly browned from age. Looks like who ever owned it literaly browned it in the stock.
The nipple wasn't to hard to pull. It was lightly rusted. There is no piting around the nipple area. The barrel is good. Rifleing in good shape. No rings.
Looking at it closser it is obviously a kit or has been altered some. The little diamonds on the side are covering the pins that are holding the thimbles in place.

I think it is a Chiappa/Armi Sport.

It is too cold to go outside shooting longer than it takes to load a round inside, step outside and take a shot and go back in imediatly. So I can test shoot it but I am not going to spend the time freezing finding out if it groups well or not.

 

[Jim Blair]

There is a kit that appears identical to your pistol in the 1977 Dixie catalog.It is the only one shown with a trigger guard and lock like that.Does not list a maker.Cost at that time was $37.50.

It says it's .44 caliber and uses a 430 ball.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Early italian repro definitely, Beautiful snail. The bridle looks like the hole is too big for the tumbler.

I have an old Pedersoli from about that time period, with a rifled brass barrel. As I recall the makers symbol then was a DP in an upright oval

 

[Zonie]

My first thought about the makers mark was the overlapped "B P" in an oval looked like a rip off of David Pedersoli's lower case "d p" in an oval.

Yes, the tumblers bridle leaves a bit to be desired.

When I first saw the bridle I thought, "That's a Palmetto" but the BP instead of the palm trees says otherwise.

It would be really neat to have a total listing of all of the various Italian makers that made muzzleloading guns over the last 50 years but I don't know of any.

The Third Edition "Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values" shows the Uberti, Pedersoli, Palmetto, and *** (old Pietta) but says nothing about the dozens (?) of other companies that made these guns.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There is one with the exact same trigger guard and trigger on GB right now, but they don't list a maker.

There were a couple of better makers some years back.

P. Bondini? They sold quite a few guns n the US years back.

 

[don hepler]

I think a lot of builders leave the part of the barrel that is hidden by the stock, unfinished.

I have two custom build rifles that were finished that way. Now, these were not finished by notable experienced builders, but were nicely finished.

I have always been curious, if this is an accepted practice.

Do your magic on it, and I'm sure it will be much nicer.

 

[cynthialee]

I am just cleaning the parts and striping the horrid brown job and giving it a nice blue. (I much prefer blueing)
I am not going to restain this one as I don't want to deal with pulling those diamond inlay pin covers and putting them back when I am finished.

What company was making the majority of kits for Dixie back in 1977? That is our most likely maker.
Once I have the barrel striped I may find more information.

 

[Don]

Italian, probably Bondini. Hows it shoot? Been eye ballin an Armi-Sport on one of the auction sites so I am curious to hear how your Italian pistol performs.

Don

 

[cynthialee]

It is too cold outside to do any real shooting to work up a proper load for it.
It test fired just fine and dandy. Thats all I got for now.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Paolo Bondini Italian Gunsmith and armsmaker. Most likely candidate.

 

[cynthialee]

Paolo Bondini Italian Gunsmith and armsmaker. Most likely candidate.

I think we have a winner.

Looking through internet images I have concluded that the hammer on this pistol is identical to a few P Bondini pistols of similar design. The lock plate and insides matche as does the brass plate on the side.

Also the big P B in a circle kinda seals the deal.

 

[Leatherbark]

That looks like an "F.I.E" Kentucky Pistol from back in the 70's. The backside of the lock gave it away to me. I have parts of a "Zouave" made by F.I.E for Sears/Roebuck back in the 70's that I paid $79.95 for that has the same lock guts.

My experience with F.I.E of Hialea Florida who was the importer is that it seems like they called up Italian manufacuters and said "Hey when you sweep up loose parts laying on the floor of your factory ,peice us togther some Ky pistols and Zouave rifles please".

Seriously though my first F.I.E was a brass 58 Remington kit that was in a sort of a blisterpack. The barrel/cylinder gap was over a 1/16ths inch I'll swear. But it taught me cap and ballling and believe it or not it was fairly accurate. After a while the 30 grain charges seemed to warp the frame to where it looked like the barrel was crooked. The barrels of these guns were the best part.

Bob

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have a Sear Zouave from the 1970's that says made by Antonio Zoli. A fairly good quality piece and darn accurate. Lock interior is quite good.

Bondini made some of the best Italian muzzle loading pistols ever made. I'm not sure they made everything they sold. Some of their guns seem to share parts with other Italian guns.

 

[Zonie]

I have a hard time believing the maker of some of the best Italian muzzle loading pistols ever made the bridle that's in Cynthia's lock. :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

It looks like crap inside the lock, but it doesn't function like it looks. Half cock is solid. Pull back is smooth, firm and fluid. Fires with a clean snap. There is not even the hint of hanging up on or touching the half cock when you take it from full cock to down on the nipple slow and careful.

 

[Leatherbark]

I have a Sear Zouave from the 1970's that says made by Antonio Zoli. A fairly good quality piece and darn accurate. Lock interior is quite good.

Bondini made some of the best Italian muzzle loading pistols ever made. I'm not sure they made everything they sold. Some of their guns seem to share parts with other Italian guns.

I always wondered that myself. Every other Sears Zouave I saw was a Zoli except mine. Mine was definitly an FIE (firearms import and export). Said it right on the side of the barrel. It also had a small brass dovetailed front sight and a two piece stock. I still have the back part of the stock and maybe even the lock. One thing odd about my lock is it looks identical to the rear of Cynthia's pistol even down to the coil sear spring. Another odd thing about my Sears Zouave lock was that it had that cast bridle and a super tiny mainspring. It felt like a rubber band was powering the hammer. I'll see if I can find the lock and take a picture.
Another odd thing is the barrel had a two piece breechplug and bolster. The bolster with the nipple hole screwed into the barrel and a tang with threads screwed into the bolster. Even the Sears Zoauave parts diagram in Numrichs catalog didnt show this or a two piece stock. I believe this was 1978 or 79 probably about the end of the Sears Zouave era.

Bob