Help Identifying this gun? It has two hallmarks. It has a ramrod as well.

[user 57475]

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Birmingham after 1813

 

[Flintandsteel]

Well after, it’s percussion

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Well after, it’s percussion

Well of course but the proofs to which he is enquiring reveal no more ; )

 

[user 57475]

What kind of gun is it? Made in England? Sorry, I'm a newbie. After 1813, but before 1901 by the proofs. Any clue as to what period during that era?

 

[OldRust]

With the back action lock I would think mid to late of your time range. I believe you have a name on the lock itself. I would rub a bit of blackboard chalk on the name to enhance it and take a closeup photo. More photos would be helpful. I believe you have a nice English Sporting Gun, but I'm just a student, the English SME's "Subject Matter Experts will be along".

Thanks,
O.R.

 

[andy52]

Back-action locks weren't around in 1813. They started in the late 1840s.

 

[andy52]

There's some sort of engraved name on the lock can you tell us what it is?
I'd like to see the gun in its entirety.

 

[user 48679]

Your pics don't show if it has a rear sight, like a rifle would have - no rear sight = smoothbore

Also, there may be more information in the metal's hidden areas (underside of the barrel inside the stock, inside surface of the lockplate, etc)

A careful dis-assembly might result in some answers.

.

 

[user 31232]

View attachment 203228View attachment 203229

Sure is a fine looking piece!

 

[Pukka Bundook]

By the style of the hammer, I'd say 1840 -50.
Yes, back action locks are later.

Andy,52,
Capt Jas was referring the the Birmingham proof marks, as being those struck between 1813 (when the new proof house opened) and 1901 when the proof stamps changed.
He wasn't saying the gun was Made in 1813.

best,
Rich.

 

[user 57475]

Thanks so much all this has been really helpful

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

1813 English? ya know there has been suggested disassembly seeking more marks other than the two top coats, some are stamped under the barrel and under lock plates.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

No, not 1813 CVA E.
The Proof marks ran From 1813 to 1901.

A mark on the bottom flat may be present, something like "Twisted Stubs"

No proofs though.

Best,
Rich.

 

[rhart]

Name on lock plate looks like 'Mortimer' to me...

 

[sheriff john]

According to "The Standard Directory Of Proofmarks" those are from the Birmingham proof house, but may not be the exact location of the barrelmaker. Barrelmakers were separate guilds. There were hefty fines and even confiscation of guns without proper (or faked) proofmarks in England. Barrels imported were required to be proofed as well, marked with various things - gauge, caliber, black powder and/or nitro proof, etc.

Some markings referenced "balls to the pound" rather than bore diameter in inches, etc, etc,

The underside of the barrel may well bear additional info. Location of proofmarke on this piece would permit verification of barrel proof without disassembly. Nice gun, by the way. England produced muzzleloading shotguns even into the 20th century. Military arms varied in proofmarks according to the book. This gun is a sporting gun, not military.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

W & C Scott made piles of firearms,Just because it says "Mortimer" doesn't mean they made everything. At that time there was still a ton of cottage industry in GB and on the continent. tis why suggested or asked any other markings? bottom side of barrel down around chamber end?

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Yes, a great deal of middling guns were made by the trade and any ironmonger could have his name put on the lock if he so chose.
Even high end guns could have different names on them. Made for a retailer.